Marketing Online Review

Question:

Just made the Lemon Squares with a couple of modifications.  They ARE good enough for company!  Upon tasting the raw crust, I realized it would lend itself VERY nicely to flaxmeal, so I added a tsp to that.  I used 2 tsp lemon extract instead of lemon juice (based on other comments here) and liquid Splenda in the topping.   I’m THRILLED with the Liquid Splenda!  By using that in the lemon topping, I saved about 24 carbs off the total, and it’s VERY sweet!  Actually, I might use LESS sweetener next time (and there WILL be a next time).  I used a longer cake pan so the lemon topping layer was fairly thin — I may use the 8×8 pan recommended in the directions next time. I ordered the liquid Splenda (in a syrup base) from http://www.locarber.com (the website seems unavailable at the moment, but that’s probably just a temporary glitch).  The timing was good since the owner had just received or was about to receive more product from the manufacturer, so I had it in about a week.  It’s GREAT for anything that will easily mix with liquid sweetener such as tea, coffee, CHEESECAKE, whatever, and it bakes well.  I’d order more right away, but I want to see how long this lasts.   My modified version of the Lemon Squares is as follows: Nancy’s Low Carb Lemon Squares (bar cookies) Crust: 3/4 cup almond flour 1/4 cup oat flour 1 Tbl flaxmeal 1/2 cup Splenda 1/2 cup softened butter 1/2 teaspoon guar or xanthan gum (optional, just helps hold it together better) Filling: 2 large eggs 1.5 tbl Liquid Splenda 1/2 teaspoon baking powder 1/4 teaspoon salt 2 tsp lemon extract Blend crust ingredients and pat into a Pam sprayed 8×8 baking pan. Bake at 350 degrees for about 18 minutes  or until very lightly browned and set (not shiny any more). Beat the ingredients for the filling (topping) for about a minute, pour evenly over the pre-baked crust and bake again for about 15-20 minutes or until barely browned and set. Let cool at room temperature, cut into 16 even squares, eat one and cover the rest. Keep cool in the refrigerator. 10 servings (you could make them smaller, of course Carbs: 3.637 Cals:  167.8 — Saffire 205/187/125 Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just made the Lemon Squares with a couple of modifications.  They ARE good enough for company!  Upon tasting the raw crust, I realized it would lend itself VERY nicely to flaxmeal, so I added a tsp to that.  I used 2 tsp lemon extract instead of lemon juice (based on other comments here) and liquid Splenda in the topping.   I’m THRILLED with the Liquid Splenda!  By using that in the lemon topping, I saved about 24 carbs off the total, and it’s VERY sweet!  Actually, I might use LESS sweetener next time (and there WILL be a next time).  I used a longer cake pan so the lemon topping layer was fairly thin — I may use the 8×8 pan recommended in the directions next time. I ordered the liquid Splenda (in a syrup base) from http://www.locarber.com (the website seems unavailable at the moment, but that’s probably just a temporary glitch).  The timing was good since the owner had just received or was about to receive more product from the manufacturer, so I had it in about a week.  It’s GREAT for anything that will easily mix with liquid sweetener such as tea, coffee, CHEESECAKE, whatever, and it bakes well.  I’d order more right away, but I want to see how long this lasts.   My modified version of the Lemon Squares is as follows: Nancy’s Low Carb Lemon Squares (bar cookies) Crust: 3/4 cup almond flour 1/4 cup oat flour 1 Tbl flaxmeal 1/2 cup Splenda 1/2 cup softened butter 1/2 teaspoon guar or xanthan gum (optional, just helps hold it together better) Filling: 2 large eggs 1.5 tbl Liquid Splenda 1/2 teaspoon baking powder 1/4 teaspoon salt 2 tsp lemon extract Blend crust ingredients and pat into a Pam sprayed 8×8 baking pan. Bake at 350 degrees for about 18 minutes  or until very lightly browned and set (not shiny any more). Beat the ingredients for the filling (topping) for about a minute, pour evenly over the pre-baked crust and bake again for about 15-20 minutes or until barely browned and set. Let cool at room temperature, cut into 16 even squares, eat one and cover the rest. Keep cool in the refrigerator. 10 servings (you could make them smaller, of course Carbs: 3.637 Cals:  167.8

Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda.

Response:

Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda.

Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully.   TIA, Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully.   TIA, Chakolate

I sell on ebay and accept Paypal as my only form of payment. It is safe quick and hassle free. I have never had a problem using them. I use lowcarbchocoaltes.com and they accept Paypal.  I also do many international transaction with no trouble either. Laureen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully.   TIA, Chakolate I sell on ebay and accept Paypal as my only form of payment. It is safe quick and hassle free. I have never had a problem using them. I use lowcarbchocoaltes.com and they accept Paypal.  I also do many international transaction with no trouble either. Laureen

I use PayPal for various things – purchased a book with it, use it to accept payment for items sold on EBay, etc.  Great service.  Legit. — Nancy Howells (don’t forget to switch it, and replace the to send mail).

Response:

Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.  

I did.  Now that you mention it, I think I DID use PayPal for it.  I actually keep an entirely separate (as in another bank) account JUST for using with PayPal/eBay.  I dont’ even have any checks for it since I only use it electronically.  I keep a limited amount in it so that even if something DOES go terribly awry, there’s only so much money available.  I haven’t had any problems with PayPal (yet), but it sounds like you have.  I’ve used them for several years now.   I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully.  

– Saffire 205/187/125 Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Response:

I sell on ebay and accept Paypal as my only form of payment. It is safe quick and hassle free. I have never had a problem using them. I use lowcarbchocoaltes.com and they accept Paypal.  I also do many international transaction with no trouble either.

I know that most people have no problem, and I’d be willing to give them another try, but I want to be sure the vendor is legit first. Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

Response:

I asked: Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I did.

So just to be clear, you ordered from locarber.com and the delivery was what was promised?  I worry a little that they say it could take up to 4 weeks.  If they’re not legit, they could be a long way away in 4 weeks.   Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

Response:

I sell on ebay and accept Paypal as my only form of payment. It is safe quick and hassle free. I have never had a problem using them. I use lowcarbchocoaltes.com and they accept Paypal.  I also do many international transaction with no trouble either. I know that most people have no problem, and I’d be willing to give them another try, but I want to be sure the vendor is legit first.

I bought some liquid splenda from her last spring, before she set up the locarber.com site.  She was running it as more of an informal co-op then, just by word-of-mouth and email.  Delivery took several weeks, but she warned us ahead of time that that would be the case.  She did deliver as promised, when promised.  I consider her legit. (I took a bigger risk then than someone would who buys from her site now — back then, we were buying a much more highly concentrated solution, in larger bottles, so it cost the co-op participants $99 each, including S&H. She didn’t rip anyone off.) Em

Response:

I bought some liquid splenda from her last spring, before she set up the locarber.com site.  She was running it as more of an informal co-op then, just by word-of-mouth and email.  Delivery took several weeks, but she warned us ahead of time that that would be the case.  She did deliver as promised, when promised.  I consider her legit.

Thanks!  This was exactly what I hoped to hear.  I’m ordering now.   Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

Response:

Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.  

I’ve bought from locarber.com. I understand that she ships when she’s accumulated enough orders and was prepared to wait 3-4 weeks (as it says on the site, right next to the Splenda ordering place). It got here in less than a week! I was so surprised and delighted. Unfortunately, I’ve discovered that I *HATE* the taste of Splenda. Well, the taste is okay but the aftertaste… <shudder It’s truly disgusting to me. And it took brushing my teeth to get rid of the taste. But that’s not the fault of locarber.com! Lots of people do like the taste of Splenda. I’ve never found an artificial sweetener that didn’t have some sort of hideous aftertaste for me. I wouldn’t hesitate to order from them again if only I could enjoy the taste of Splenda. Shirley to reply via e-mail remove the trees from my address

Response:

Unfortunately, I’ve discovered that I *HATE* the taste of Splenda. Well, the taste is okay but the aftertaste… <shudder It’s truly disgusting to me. And it took brushing my teeth to get rid of the taste.

Interested in reselling the syrup? Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

Response:

I asked: Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I did. So just to be clear, you ordered from locarber.com and the delivery was what was promised?  I worry a little that they say it could take up to 4 weeks.  If they’re not legit, they could be a long way away in 4 weeks.  

Yes.  I actually received it early.  It is a coop, so they wait until they have enough orders and then order it in bulk — THAT’S why it might take a long time.   I lucked out in the timing dept.  TrishZ, who I am assuming is the owner, sent an order confirmation right away.  I found them because there was a discussion about liquid sucralose here in the carb group in late September and someone recommended them.  Trish used to post here (before my time) and a Google search reveals what seems to be a very nice person.  Of course, I didn’t KNOW that was her Usenet ID until I received the confirmation message — until then, I only knew the locarber.com part.  In any case, my transaction went very well and I plan to order from them again.   An interesting thing about this liquid sucralose is that the sweet taste STAYS in your mouth for a very long time.   — Saffire 205/187/125 Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo:  http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully.   TIA, Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

How did you have a negative experience with paypal?  I hope you aren’t blaming pay pal for a vendor that turned out to be dis-honest.  All paypal does is transfer funds.  It’s not thier fault if a vendor turns out to suck, and it certainly isn’t their responsibility to get your money back for you. Jake — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

Response:

But that’s not the fault of locarber.com! Lots of people do like the taste of Splenda. I’ve never found an artificial sweetener that didn’t have some sort of hideous aftertaste for me. I wouldn’t hesitate to order from them again if only I could enjoy the taste of Splenda.

Sistah! Priscilla

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully.   TIA, Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling How did you have a negative experience with paypal?  I hope you aren’t blaming pay pal for a vendor that turned out to be dis-honest.  All paypal does is transfer funds.  It’s not thier fault if a vendor turns out to suck, and it certainly isn’t their responsibility to get your money back for you. Jake

I think what the OP was referring to, was not PayPal itself, but the fact that vendors that only do business through PayPal are not held to nearly the same standards that vendors that take major credit cards. It’s much harder for a vendor to establish a VISA/AMEX account.  Just about anyone with a bank account can open a PayPal account. You’re right that it’s not PayPals fault if someone screws you.  But it’s a lot more likely to happen from a vendor that only takes Cash or Paypal.  And then they can walk away and open a new Paypal account in their son’s name, etc.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them.   I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully.   TIA, Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling How did you have a negative experience with paypal?  I hope you aren’t blaming pay pal for a vendor that turned out to be dis-honest.  All paypal does is transfer funds.  It’s not thier fault if a vendor turns out to suck, and it certainly isn’t their responsibility to get your money back for you. Jake I think what the OP was referring to, was not PayPal itself, but the fact that vendors that only do business through PayPal are not held to nearly the same standards that vendors that take major credit cards. It’s much harder for a vendor to establish a VISA/AMEX account.  Just about anyone with a bank account can open a PayPal account. You’re right that it’s not PayPals fault if someone screws you.  But it’s a lot more likely to happen from a vendor that only takes Cash or Paypal.  And then they can walk away and open a new Paypal account in their son’s name, etc.

Thanks for the explanation- I wasn’t making the connection. Jake — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

Response:

Incorrect. When a person is "paypal" verified member that is DESIGNED To portray a level of TRUST paypal has in the vendor and passes that percieved "trust" onto me. Paypal does everything and acts like a BANK but because they are NOT a bank you have NONE of the federally mandated PROTECTIONS in place to prevent from being SCREWED They are not transferring funds. I am paying paypal money. paypal then pays the vendor (a different sum of money I might add) I have heard many a horror story bout paypal (yes I use paypal almost daily but very very carefully A seller sold a "collectable" item to a buyer for $2500 buyer recieved and was happy. a week later the buyer was demanding a refund. why ? she saw what she has BID ON AND WON IN AUCTION (the $2500) cheaper somewhere else and wanter her money back. CLEARLY the seller said tough thats your problem. the buyer SENT the item back to paypal. paypal STOLE this ladies $2500 OUT of her bank account and gave it back to the buyer and then told the seller do you want the item back ? !!!! MY GOD !!!! the GAL ! this person entered a bid into a legally binding contract and because she felt she paid too much PAYPAL STOLE this persons money. this would never happen if paypal was forced to become a real financial institution but by staying private and unofficial they get to pull shit like this. I will never take more than a couple hundred dollars as payment via paypal. just not worth having paypal screw me. Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting that locarber is selling what is essentially liquid splenda.  Looks like they may have found a loop hole in the contract that precludes reselling it.  They have just added some minimal presevative ingredients and then call it a syrup base, which is then just a food product containing splenda. Has anyone actually purchased from this vendor?  I tried to, but they would only accept PayPal, and I’ve had a negative experience with them. I’ll use PayPal if they’re actually a legit business, so I’d like to hear if anybody else used them successfully. TIA, Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling How did you have a negative experience with paypal?  I hope you aren’t blaming pay pal for a vendor that turned out to be dis-honest.  All paypal does is transfer funds.  It’s not thier fault if a vendor turns out to suck, and it certainly isn’t their responsibility to get your money back for you. Jake — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

Response:

Incorrect.

WOW!  That’s just wacky.  I must use paypal in a totally different way from you (or the people you’ve described).  I had no idea you could send paypal your merchandise to get a refund.   Thanks for the heads up.  I’d love more information on paypal crossing the bounds like this- it would be interesting to see if it happens a lot. Jake

Response:

Heh heh, look what I just found… http://nopaypal.com — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

Response:

How did you have a negative experience with paypal?  I hope you aren’t blaming pay pal for a vendor that turned out to be dis-honest.  All paypal does is transfer funds.  It’s not thier fault if a vendor turns out to suck, and it certainly isn’t their responsibility to get your money back for you.

I’d rather not go into details, and it was (almost) as much my fault as PayPal’s, but it was my first internet purchase and it went really wrong.   It was also when PayPal first started.  I’m willing to try them again; as I said, I just wanted to make sure the vendor was legit first.   Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

Response:

Paypal does everything and acts like a BANK but because they are NOT a bank you have NONE of the federally mandated PROTECTIONS in place to prevent from being SCREWED

THANK you for this CLEAR and OBVIOUS explanation.  It SOUNDS like you have had a LOT of EXPERIENCE with PayPal.  :-) Chakolate — On sadness: The cure for this ill is not to sit still, Or to frowst with a book by the fire, But to take a large hoe and a shovel also, And to dig till you gently perspire.     –Rudyard Kipling

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How did you have a negative experience with paypal?  I hope you aren’t blaming pay pal for a vendor that turned out to be dis-honest.  All paypal does is transfer funds.  It’s not thier fault if a vendor turns out to suck, and it certainly isn’t their responsibility to get your money back for you. I’d rather not go into details, and it was (almost) as much my fault as PayPal’s, but it was my first internet purchase and it went really wrong.   It was also when PayPal first started.  I’m willing to try them again; as I said, I just wanted to make sure the vendor was legit first.   Chakolate

Actually the more I read about people’s paypal complaints ( I looked up the phrase "paypal screwed me over" in Google), the more I see your point.  I had never heard of someone getting bent by PP, but apparently it happens a lot. Jake — My favorite animal is steak.–Fran Lebowitz

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THANK you for this CLEAR and OBVIOUS explanation.  It SOUNDS like you have had a LOT of EXPERIENCE with PayPal.  :-)

Actually IT sounds LIKE his CAPS lock KEY is BROKEN.

Response:

I’d rather not go into details, and it was (almost) as much my fault as PayPal’s, but it was my first internet purchase and it went really wrong.   It was also when PayPal first started.  I’m willing to try them again; as I said, I just wanted to make sure the vendor was legit first.  

PayPal is owned by eBay now.  I’ve seen their policies improving since the buyout.  For a nominal fee, you can buy satisfaction insurance on your purchase.  Might be worth another look.  I’ve been using them for several years with no problem. Carol — 226/196/150 October Challenge Goal – 191 http://photos.yahoo.com/carol_arie/ Atkins since January 26, 2003 Type 2 Diabetic since May 15, 2001

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Question:

What about CNN who is profiting from the diaster?

Is CNN out collecting shuttle debris and selling it on eBay? The job of the press in a free society is to report the news, and since the press is not state-subsidized, in a free-market economy, they must make a profit in order to remain in business and continue to report the news. Personally, I am not a fan of CNN, but the press serves a vital role in a free society, the so-called ‘fourth estate’ that helps preserve the checks and balances that keeps us living in that free society by throwing light on what our government does, among other things. It seems you are not a student of democracy, or you would know that. Now, what does that cretin who tried to sell shuttle debris on eBay contribute to our society?  What value does he return that we should accept his behavior? Like I said before, I am getting a bit tired of these ‘worse evil’ arguments in defense of this kind of human garbage.  Yes, there are worse evils in the world than a guy selling shuttle debris on eBay. That in no way excuses his behavior, in my opinion.  Under what circumstances would it?  It is like saying, "Well, I robbed the 7-11, but I should be let go because at least I didn’t shoot anybody.  And the local TV station broadcast the story and made a profit on it, so they’re worse than me." But if you think he’s a great guy, by all means, git in your pick-em-up truck, drive out to east Texas, find you a rusty old hunk of ‘56 Desoto frame, and sell it on eBay as gen-u-wine shuttle debris.  Buy yourself some Lone Star beer with the proceeds and sit back in your trailer proclaiming yourself a True American for not being as evil as CNN, the War on Iraq, or President Bush.  In America today, if you don’t measure up to that level of ‘evil’ I guess it makes you both innocent of any crime and heroic into the bargain.  10-4, good buddy. Bah! Bill Mattocks

Response:

What about CNN who is profiting from the diaster? Is CNN out collecting shuttle debris and selling it on eBay?

  No.  I thought your point was about people profiting from the diaster.  If your problem is about people profiting from the diaster, CNN is one of many.   Now, what does that cretin who tried to sell shuttle debris on eBay contribute to our society?  What value does he return that we should accept his behavior?

  Are you saying that if one does not contribute to society, one should not be part of it? Like I said before, I am getting a bit tired of these ‘worse evil’ arguments in defense of this kind of human garbage.  Yes, there are worse evils in the world than a guy selling shuttle debris on eBay. That in no way excuses his behavior, in my opinion.  Under what circumstances would it?  It is like saying, "Well, I robbed the 7-11, but I should be let go because at least I didn’t shoot anybody.  And the local TV station broadcast the story and made a profit on it, so they’re worse than me."

  I never made that argument…. But if you think he’s a great guy, by all means, git in your pick-em-up truck, drive out to east Texas, find you a rusty old hunk of ‘56 Desoto frame, and sell it on eBay as gen-u-wine shuttle debris.  Buy yourself some Lone Star beer with the proceeds and sit back in your trailer proclaiming yourself a True American for not being as evil as CNN, the War on Iraq, or President Bush.  In America today, if you don’t measure up to that level of ‘evil’ I guess it makes you both innocent of any crime and heroic into the bargain.  10-4, good buddy.

  I never said he was a great guy.  To be honest, I am indifferent, it doesn’t bother me. dennis

Response:

i agree.  what i objected to was your attempt to make it sound like the penultimate evil.  it may be reprehensible, but it’s hardly the worst thing a human being can do.

First, ‘penultimate’ does not mean what you think it means.  I think you meant to say ‘ultimate evil’.  In any case, I never said, nor do I believe, that selling shuttle debris on eBay is the worst thing ever to happen.  But it shocks me, offends me, and I said something about it.  That’s all. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

My statement was simple – it is my opinion that a person who collects shuttle debris from the recent disaster and attempts to sell it on eBay is a sick individual, and the behavior is morally bankrupt. Nothing about Iraq, nothing about impending war, nothing about President Bush, just about a jerk selling shuttle debris.

Selling a heat shield tile? Well, if you turn it in it’s not going to bring them back, is it?

Response:

Selling a heat shield tile? Well, if you turn it in it’s not going to bring them back, is it?

Besides, something’s got to get the US economy back on it’s feet.

Response:

My statement was simple – it is my opinion that a person who collects shuttle debris from the recent disaster and attempts to sell it on eBay is a sick individual, and the behavior is morally bankrupt.

i agree.  what i objected to was your attempt to make it sound like the penultimate evil.  it may be reprehensible, but it’s hardly the worst thing a human being can do.

Response:

As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster.  My comment was about those who would profit from the deaths of the astronauts by selling bits and pieces of the destroyed shuttle.

What about CNN who is profiting from the diaster?

Response:

Selling a heat shield tile? Well, if you turn it in it’s not going to bring them back, is it?

Nothing will bring them back.  I guess that means we should not try to find out what happened and how we can prevent it in the future.  In fact, let’s not do accident investigations of any kind, whether they are cars, trains, planes, or space shuttles.  Let’s just say "Well, it won’t bring them back" and forget all about it.  We can sell the debris from all kinds of accidents as scrap without doing any investigation whatsoever.  Great idea! Would a heat shield tile provide the information necessary to figure out what went wrong?  I don’t know.  Neither do you.  And definitely neither does the yobbo who felt it was more important for him to sell his find on eBay than to cooperate in the effort to find out what went wrong. I can’t believe anyone can defend behavior like that. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

To me, collecting and selling a piece of shuttle debris is evil in nature.   to me, going to war without a congressional declaration of war as required by the US constitution, and without incontrovertible and public proof that the country you’re going to war against is in direct violation of a UN security council resolution is evil in nature.

To me, racial discrimination is evil in nature. Steve Hayes http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm

Response:

As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster. The shuttle disaster will give the average man and soldier in Iraq an incredible boost of morale.  The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala.  These events will help them rally to the cause of defending their country, and will work imperceptibly against the morale of the US troops, who will see the shuttle destruction as an example that flaws could be present in their own military technology and command and control.

Again, this has nothing to do with a slime selling shuttle debris on eBay, or the morality thereof. What I don’t understand is why you and a few others seem dead set on converting every discussion into a US vs Iraq debate. I could have said it sure is nice weather out today and you’d have replied that it ain’t good weather for innocent Iraqi civilian about to be bombed in an unjust war, or that the US has no right to good weather while the rest of the world suffers. My statement was simple – it is my opinion that a person who collects shuttle debris from the recent disaster and attempts to sell it on eBay is a sick individual, and the behavior is morally bankrupt. Nothing about Iraq, nothing about impending war, nothing about President Bush, just about a jerk selling shuttle debris. However do you get from apples to oranges like that? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

<snip The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala.

<snipped Ala.?  Who’s sending signs from Alabama?

Response:

and the soldiers in Iraq will STILL DIE.  Morale has nothing to do with the ability to pound your opponent into submission (just ask the -former- talibumbles) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster. The shuttle disaster will give the average man and soldier in Iraq an incredible boost of morale.  The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala.  These events will help them rally to the cause of defending their country, and will work imperceptibly against the morale of the US troops, who will see the shuttle destruction as an example that flaws could be present in their own military technology and command and control.

Response:

As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster.

The shuttle disaster will give the average man and soldier in Iraq an incredible boost of morale.  The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala.  These events will help them rally to the cause of defending their country, and will work imperceptibly against the morale of the US troops, who will see the shuttle destruction as an example that flaws could be present in their own military technology and command and control.

Response:

I have to sign off now.  I smashed up my rental car today, and I’m feeling a bit under the weather. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Sorry to hear about that…. If your pupils become or are dilated it’s time to go to the ER. jay Mon, Feb 3, 2003 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

To me, collecting and selling a piece of shuttle debris is evil in nature.  

to me, going to war without a congressional declaration of war as required by the US constitution, and without incontrovertible and public proof that the country you’re going to war against is in direct violation of a UN security council resolution is evil in nature.

Response:

to me, going to war without a congressional declaration of war as required by the US constitution, and without incontrovertible and public proof that the country you’re going to war against is in direct violation of a UN security council resolution is evil in nature.

Oh, well then, I guess that makes what this eBay creep did ok. I don’t know that I disagree with you, but what’s your point?  That since there are ‘greater evils’ out there, we should not consider lesser evils to be wrong? As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster.  My comment was about those who would profit from the deaths of the astronauts by selling bits and pieces of the destroyed shuttle. Are you saying that we should ignore or even applaud this morally bankrupt behavior because you (and perhaps I) disagree with the actions of the President on an unrelated situation?  It’s OK because the President is wrong to do what he is doing?  Heck, why not let all the felons out of prison, since their wrong-doing pales in comparison? Or are you just injecting your own personal opinion about the current situation with Iraq into a non-related discussion in a strange non-sequitar? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft?

they always declare no-fly zone for the shuttle flight path a couple of hours before one lands. there was apparently one big chunk that fell on the runway of the nagadoches airport.

Response:

I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft? Not that I am aware of.  On the other hand, some piece of human garbage has listed "Columbia Shuttle Debris" on eBay (Item #3205242574).  eBay appears to be watching for this – the auction is cancelled already.  May the S.O.B. rot in hell.

Who’s the greatest S.O.B.? The guy who tried to sell pieces of metal that fell in his yard, or the guy who fired the NASA engineers who wouldn’t give a "favorable" safety report? Bill, I usually agree with you on just about everything you post. I don’t in this case. After all this is America, the ultimate bastion of Capitalism, where everything including people’s lives has a price. Why should this be any different? You can’t call this guy a SOB for selling a lifeless piece of metal, and call another guy a hero for dropping a bomb on innocent civilians.     – Manny.

Response:

Who’s the greatest S.O.B.? The guy who tried to sell pieces of metal that fell in his yard, or the guy who fired the NASA engineers who wouldn’t give a "favorable" safety report?

I think you can’t compare the one with the other.  Each may be true (although I don’t know), but I know how I feel about someone trying to sell shuttle debris on eBay – it sickens me. Bill, I usually agree with you on just about everything you post. I don’t in this case. After all this is America, the ultimate bastion of Capitalism, where everything including people’s lives has a price. Why should this be any different? You can’t call this guy a SOB for selling a lifeless piece of metal, and call another guy a hero for dropping a bomb on innocent civilians.

Manny, I appreciate your opinion.  But I can’t agree.  America it is, and capitalism is not always pretty.  But we are also a nation of morals, and I like to think that most of us are, at heart, good people.  To me, collecting and selling a piece of shuttle debris is evil in nature.  I could not look myself in the mirror in the morning if I ever did something like that.  I don’t understand those who would buy such things, either.  It’s sick, it’s depraved. I cannot speak to your comment about dropping bombs on innocent civilians.  People who enter the military, whether drafted or volunteers, agree to execute the orders they are given to the best of their ability, which presumably would include dropping bombs – and it is probably a given that when dropping bombs from an aircraft, non-combatants (civilians) are going to be killed and injured in most circumstances.  Although this world has put on trial those accused of ‘War Crimes’, and we tell our military personnel that they are not allowed to follow orders that are patently illegal on their face (‘go rape those civilian women’), dropping bombs on the territory of those our nation has declared to be enemies does not appear to be a war crime.  I think I would have trouble doing it, but I am not sure that makes it wrong, other than the general prohibition against killing in most religions. One can play tit for tat with these things – but I’d prefer not to be drawn into such an argument.  Without regard to what others do or did, I still think that selling souvenirs of a tragedy such as this is revolting. I have to sign off now.  I smashed up my rental car today, and I’m feeling a bit under the weather. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

Interesting pictures in today’s NY Times. They show images from Shreveport Louisiana doppler radar from 12:04 to 1:33 pm, which I make to be between 3 and 3-1/2 hours after the breakup. There is a big red streak from WNW of Nacogdoches TX to roughly Alexan(dria?) Louisiana. That shows reflectivity near the ground. Took a heckofa long time to get down.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft? I would almost have to presume that if there were thousands of pieces of falling debris they would bound to interfere with flights in and out of DFW esp downrange towards the SE. Has there been any reports from commercial or private pilots?

Response:

I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft?

Not that I am aware of.  On the other hand, some piece of human garbage has listed "Columbia Shuttle Debris" on eBay (Item #3205242574).  eBay appears to be watching for this – the auction is cancelled already.  May the S.O.B. rot in hell. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

Not that I am aware of.  On the other hand, some piece of human garbage has listed "Columbia Shuttle Debris" on eBay (Item #3205242574).  eBay appears to be watching for this – the auction is cancelled already.  May the S.O.B. rot in hell.

See!  I told you it would happen. You know, I don’t know what the point is of putting 12 traffic cones, 100 ft of police tape and 3 squad card around ever piece of debris.  They’re gonna run out of cops pretty fast if they keep doing that. Just pick up the damn stuff.  Why let it sit there, consuming law enforcement resources?  What’s the point – they gonna do some kind of fancy analysis on-the-spot?  I’ve even seen cops take pictures of the stuff.  Why?  Get it the hell into a hanger already.  It’s not a freeking traffic accident mr. cop. You think you’re gonna reconstruct the accident from the piece you got there?

Response:

I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft? I would almost have to presume that if there were thousands of pieces of falling debris they would bound to interfere with flights in and out of DFW esp downrange towards the SE. Has there been any reports from commercial or private pilots?

Response:

Question:

It is on the bidders page. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? Only other person that did was on Prodigy also, said it was okay using ATT newsfeed but screwed on Prodigy. Sorry, should have been clearer–I meant the phenomenon Kris reported seeing on eBay, not the one she’s suffering from here. Though both are interesting . Deborah Stevenson I’ve noticed no zip codes except in my own auctions. But I haven’t messed with anyone’s checkout stuff either, think that was where she claimed to see it? —         Mac

Response:

bidders page. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? no and i did much the same poking around you did to a lesser extent, but came up with pretty much the same answers. robert

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris Why is that a problem?  It’s just the zip code, not the full address.

A nine-digit zip code will get you pretty darn close to the full address! The nine-digit zip code for my old address was specific to a group of four individual apartments. = Eric

Response:

Interesting. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? Only other person that did was on Prodigy also, said it was okay using ATT newsfeed but screwed on Prodigy. Sorry, should have been clearer–I meant the phenomenon Kris reported seeing on eBay, not the one she’s suffering from here. Though both are interesting . Deborah Stevenson

Response:

says… Why is that a problem?  It’s just the zip code, not the full address. A nine-digit zip code will get you pretty darn close to the full address! The nine-digit zip code for my old address was specific to a group of four individual apartments. = Eric

The eBay info is only the first 5. —         Mac

Response:

I still don’t get it. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button: Okay, I thought I had figured out what you were saying–any passing eBayguy can request the total and then see the zip code. And then I went to one of your  closed auctions, figuring that if I screwed everything up completely with an experiment you’d let me go if I groveled enough.  And it wouldn’t even let me see a "request total" button. Did you see this on an auction you weren’t a party to?  If not, I think this is something eBay is limiting to the parties involved. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

I don’t see how this is somethign good turned bad? ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? Deborah Stevenson

Response:

Why through that account? ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? Only other person that did was on Prodigy also, said it was okay using ATT newsfeed but screwed on Prodigy. One should always have access account through DFN.DE IMNSHO. Heck, in the last few years I’ve had 2 local ISP feeds, Earthlink, ATT (account I still have), and NONE of them hold a candle to DFN. Richard mentioned recently same opinion. —         Mac (doogle)

Response:

Now I am really lost. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button: Okay, I thought I had figured out what you were saying–any passing eBayguy can request the total and then see the zip code. And then I went to one of your  closed auctions, figuring that if I screwed everything up completely with an experiment you’d let me go if I groveled enough.  And it wouldn’t even let me see a "request total" button. Did you see this on an auction you weren’t a party to?  If not, I think this is something eBay is limiting to the parties involved. Deborah Stevenson Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Mac

Response:

that is what I thought to. I think it helps for the shipping and plus, a buyer might be closer to you and you can tell them they can pick it up. I have increased my sales because of that. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris Why is that a problem?  It’s just the zip code, not the full address.

Response:

Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon?

Only other person that did was on Prodigy also, said it was okay using ATT newsfeed but screwed on Prodigy. One should always have access account through DFN.DE IMNSHO. Heck, in the last few years I’ve had 2 local ISP feeds, Earthlink, ATT (account I still have), and NONE of them hold a candle to DFN. Richard mentioned recently same opinion. —         Mac (doogle)

Response:

How is this a bad thing. I don’t get it either. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button: Kris, where’s ‘request a total’?  I only see ’send payment information’, and clicking that for an auction that I’m not involved in gets me: "We are sorry. You cannot checkout this item xxxxxxxxxx as you are not the winner"     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris I’m not getting that. a. linklurker

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? Only other person that did was on Prodigy also, said it was okay using ATT newsfeed but screwed on Prodigy. Sorry, should have been clearer–I meant the phenomenon Kris reported seeing on eBay, not the one she’s suffering from here. Though both are interesting . Deborah Stevenson

I’ve noticed no zip codes except in my own auctions. But I haven’t messed with anyone’s checkout stuff either, think that was where she claimed to see it? —         Mac

Response:

I just noticed this today and I think it is WONDERFUL. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris

Response:

Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon?

no and i did much the same poking around you did to a lesser extent, but came up with pretty much the same answers. robert

Response:

iof she actually read the post she wouldn’t be saying this was "wonderful" spam excuse.  i’ve forwarded several of the more obvious ones, there are many many more. robert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just noticed this today and I think it is WONDERFUL. ~ CHEERS ~            Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris

If you would like to receive emails about future book auctions let me know. Thanks

Response:

I read it and I don’t see how this info is bad. ~ CHEERS ~             Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – iof she actually read the post she wouldn’t be saying this was "wonderful" spam excuse.  i’ve forwarded several of the more obvious ones, there are many many more. robert I just noticed this today and I think it is WONDERFUL. ~ CHEERS ~            Christina D. Anderson – Mrs. Illinois 96 http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotate/eBayNG CALL ME: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateEB/eBayNG 1 Cent AUCTIONS: http://www.hypertracker.com/go/mrsil96/ngrotateAC/eBayNG It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris If you would like to receive emails about future book auctions let me know. Thanks

Response:

It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris

Why is that a problem?  It’s just the zip code, not the full address.

Response:

It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:

Kris, where’s ‘request a total’?  I only see ’send payment information’, and clicking that for an auction that I’m not involved in gets me: "We are sorry. You cannot checkout this item xxxxxxxxxx as you are not the winner"     (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.     (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)     You have requested the total payment amount.     Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete     payment. Kris

I’m not getting that. a. linklurker

Response:

It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:    (winning bidder’s ID) is the winner.    (Preferred ship-to zip code: xxxxx-xxxx. Please confirm.)    You have requested the total payment amount.    Your seller will send the amount and instructions to complete    payment.

I’m not quite following you.  From what I’ve seen, the zip code is viewable only to parties to the transaction (IOW, if you view the page when you haven’t logged in or accepted cookies, you won’t see the zip code).  Are you saying that if the buyer requests a total, then the zip code is available to everybody?  Or that even without the request for a total, the zip code is showing up regardless of login? Deborah Stevenson

Response:

It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button:

Okay, I thought I had figured out what you were saying–any passing eBayguy can request the total and then see the zip code. And then I went to one of your  closed auctions, figuring that if I screwed everything up completely with an experiment you’d let me go if I groveled enough.  And it wouldn’t even let me see a "request total" button. Did you see this on an auction you weren’t a party to?  If not, I think this is something eBay is limiting to the parties involved. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a big help, that eBay is giving sellers the zip code of the winning bidder, in the EOA email. But….I just noticed something.   The same information is visible to the entire world, via the closed auction page, if they use the "request a total" button: Okay, I thought I had figured out what you were saying–any passing eBayguy can request the total and then see the zip code. And then I went to one of your  closed auctions, figuring that if I screwed everything up completely with an experiment you’d let me go if I groveled enough.  And it wouldn’t even let me see a "request total" button. Did you see this on an auction you weren’t a party to?  If not, I think this is something eBay is limiting to the parties involved. Deborah Stevenson

Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Mac

Response:

Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob. Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? Only other person that did was on Prodigy also, said it was okay using ATT newsfeed but screwed on Prodigy.

Sorry, should have been clearer–I meant the phenomenon Kris reported seeing on eBay, not the one she’s suffering from here. Though both are interesting . Deborah Stevenson

Response:

Methinks Kris is not able to read much here tonight. Since the other Prodigy user reported same prob.

Good point, thanks.  I’ll email her a copy of the posts. Is anybody else seeing this phenomenon? Deborah Stevenson

Response:

Question:

Ever thought that the problem might not be all the people you’re dealing with here, that the problem might really be you?

*GASP!!!!*  Somewhere in Dumbass, Utah a beam of pure golden light light breaks through the clouds and streaks down from the heavens, transfixing Harris S. Newman in the glow of realization.   "All this time" he thinks "It was ME all this time.I’m the bad guy here! I did something wrong and I got punished for it and lashing out at the world is not going to change any of it!" This little bit of surreal impossibility brought to you by, TS People inside me They’re asking me to blow up city hall, Tenacious D

Response:

Did you notice that when you *did* find the page that discusses surcharges, the title indicates it’s only applicable to PayPal?

Yup (just to be clear to those who can’t find the thing, it doesn’t say it’s okay to charge surcharges with Billpoint, it just fails to acknowledge any kinds of surcharges other than PayPal).  The Billpoint user agreement is also silent on the matter now (it could have always been, I suppose, but I know there was something somewhere a bit clearer on the matter!). The Billpoint stuff in general has gone quite loopy.  A lot of it seems to be the same as the eBay pages with the word "Billpoint" substituting for "eBay," so it says things like "When you list an item for sale on Billpoint…" Deborah Stevenson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ever thought that the problem might not be all the people you’re dealing with here, that the problem might really be you? *GASP!!!!* Somewhere in Dumbass, Utah a beam of pure golden light light breaks through the clouds and streaks down from the heavens, transfixing Harris S. Newman in the glow of realization.  "All this time" he thinks "It was ME all this time.I’m the bad guy here! I did something wrong and I got punished for it and lashing out at the world is not going to change any of it!" This little bit of surreal impossibility brought to you by, TS

Harumphhh! *I* am in Dumbass, Utah — Deborah isn’t.   She’s the one of the golden light. Kris

Response:

Perhaps I should have a friend send in a complaint about you…ha, get you suspended … that would be a laugh.  See how you feel being unjustly suspended.

You’re an interesting little piece of work.  The more you post, the easier it is to understand why you’ve been permanently suspended by eBay. —   Ty Who is mostly just a slightly skewed Donna Reed This address is white-listed.  Mail sent to it may ping back to the sender.

Response:

Granted but it would be nice if they could employ people with more than the single (communal) braincell who actuallt read the emails and replied with something more than the nearest pre-prepared reply they could find. Let’s face it they are making enough money to be able to afford even a rudimentary training/recruitment budget

Though that’s probably part of why they *are* so profitable. It is odd, though, they don’t therefore put more thought into their help pages.  If people can easily find answers automatically, they’re a lot less likely to demand the time of customer service departments.  Yet I was just hunting around on the surcharge issue and I have to say that the help section has gotten worse yet again.   Deborah Stevenson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I love eBay and may start a pro website. If not for eBay, I wouldn’t have made the pile of money I’ve made in the past 4 years. Amen my brutha!!!!  If there was no Ebay, I would still have to work for somebody else. playing by their rules, making all their dreams come true.  I LOVE Ebay. I’ll go with that, but you have to admit their customer service is total shite. OH yeah!  Ebay’s customer service sucks BIG time.  I wish there was something they could do.  In all honesty, I am not sure if it will ever get better though.  I think the money they paid on that jet airplane should have went into a better call center or something. But can you imagine how many e-mails they must get a day?  There are so many buyers and sellers out there whining about SO much, day in…day out.  How can Ebay ever get to the important customer inquiries???

Granted but it would be nice if they could employ people with more than the single (communal) braincell who actuallt read the emails and replied with something more than the nearest pre-prepared reply they could find. Let’s face it they are making enough money to be able to afford even a rudimentary training/recruitment budget — Best Regards Niel Humphreys Snowdon Computers

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a week of trying to find out why (I know that it is a TKO notice) I surrender. Ebay’s service is terrible.  Call the 1800 number, they can’t help you. Follow the directions for sending to customer service, get a automated reply. Send a message to their Safe Harber organization, get a automated reply.   Someone already responded to your initial post telling you what "TKO" stood for. It’s the same thing eBay told you in the email notification of your NARU. Don’t plan on being reinstated in this lifetime. i seemed to have missed it, and looking back through the posts i still don’t see it.  what did TKO end up meaning? robert

I didnt see it either

Response:

It is odd, though, they don’t therefore put more thought into their help pages.  If people can easily find answers automatically, they’re a lot less likely to demand the time of customer service departments.  Yet I was just hunting around on the surcharge issue and I have to say that the help section has gotten worse yet again. Deborah Stevenson

Did you notice that when you *did* find the page that discusses surcharges, the title indicates it’s only applicable to PayPal? Kris

Response:

Should and will are two different things.  Your trian of logic is far from strong here.  1) I was not genuinely prepared to lie (my statement of this in pulic shows that also. 2) My suspension for unknown reasons does  not connect in any way to my above statement. Thus, your a very illogical bitch.

Let’s examine your own logic here. 1.  What you stated was "Perhaps I should have a friend send in a complaint about you…ha, get you suspended … that would be a laugh."  Should and would have nothing to do with it, whether it’s a trian of logic, or even if it’s a train. 2.  If you weren’t genuinely prepared to lie, why did you threaten to do exactly that?  Your statements in public show that you were suggesting you thought it would be funny to get someone to lie to try to get someone’s account suspended, for the horrible offense of making the following statement: "I love eBay and may start a pro website. If not for eBay, I wouldn’t have made the pile of money I’ve made in the past 4 years." Would you like to explain your own logic? 3.  Your suspension does relate to your statements in one very simple way.  People who respond to every statement that doesn’t fit their own view of an issue with thinly veiled threats of revenge are people who lack the common sense and maturity to conduct business in any forum, online or traditional.  You’ve shown yourself to fit into that group, therefore regardless of the reason behind your suspension, whether you truly know what it is or not, the eBay community at large is better off without your presence. 4.  I’ve read several hundred of Deborah’s posts in this group, I’ve also read the handful you’ve made.  Deborah has always seemed to make a real effort to be helpful, and is one of the most polite people who post here.  You haven’t made any effort to help anyone, you’ve asked one question, leaving out any real information that might give people any hint of why you got NARUed.  You then posted a tirade about how you were leaving eBay for good, and when someone didn’t jump on your bandwagon, you threatened to try to get someone to lie to get them kicked off eBay.  When you were called on it, you responded by calling Deborah an illogical bitch.  Ever thought that the problem might not be all the people you’re dealing with here, that the problem might really be you? Richard Ward

Response:

Perhaps I should have a friend send in a complaint about you…ha, get you suspended … that would be a laugh.  See how you feel being unjustly suspended.

Have at it nosewipe. Complain away. Sounds to me, with your attitude, your suspension was probably justified.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I love eBay and may start a pro website. If not for eBay, I wouldn’t have made the pile of money I’ve made in the past 4 years. Amen my brutha!!!!  If there was no Ebay, I would still have to work for somebody else. playing by their rules, making all their dreams come true.  I LOVE Ebay.  

most of the time they are ok, other times they are "look at the new boss, same as the old boss" corporate flunkies. robert

Response:

Should and will are two different things.  Your trian of logic is far from strong here.  1) I was not genuinely prepared to lie (my statement of this in pulic shows that also.

It doesn’t show that, actually.  But I’m glad to hear you’re not (a possibility I clearly acknowledged in my use of "If," rather than "Because"). 2) My suspension for unknown reasons does  not connect in any way to my above statement. Thus, your a very illogical bitch.

You’re confusing "just" and "appropriate."  I’m actually a very logical bitch. I’m sorry you’re in this frustrating situation, Harris, hence my small attempt to assist you when you were trying to contact eBay.  However, I think you’re taking your frustration with eBay out on people here, and I don’t think that’s a great idea. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

I love eBay and may start a pro website. If not for eBay, I wouldn’t have made the pile of money I’ve made in the past 4 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a week of trying to find out why (I know that it is a TKO notice) I surrender. Ebay’s service is terrible.  Call the 1800 number, they can’t help you. Follow the directions for sending to customer service, get a automated reply. Send a message to their Safe Harber organization, get a automated reply. Seems that if someone complains about you on ebay, for whatever reason, you now are permanently suspended from ebay.  No discussions.  No facts.  Just suspension.  This is a great feature for competators! Look for my upcomming website against ebay in the near future!  I will never do business with that organization again, and I will actively tell everyone I know to do the same.  Ebay is run by dictators who don’t care about their customers. Harris Newman .

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a week of trying to find out why (I know that it is a TKO notice) I surrender. Ebay’s service is terrible.  Call the 1800 number, they can’t help you. Follow the directions for sending to customer service, get a automated reply. Send a message to their Safe Harber organization, get a automated reply.   Someone already responded to your initial post telling you what "TKO" stood for. It’s the same thing eBay told you in the email notification of your NARU. Don’t plan on being reinstated in this lifetime.

i seemed to have missed it, and looking back through the posts i still don’t see it.  what did TKO end up meaning? robert

Response:

   Someone already responded to your initial post telling you what "TKO" stood for. It’s the same thing eBay told you in the email notification of your NARU. Don’t plan on being reinstated in this lifetime.

Would you mind repeating it?  I must have missed it, and I can’t find it anywhere on teh web site. — "Thus the metric system did not really catch on in the States, unless you count the increasing popularity of the nine-millimeter bullet."- Dave Barry

Response:

I love eBay and may start a pro website. If not for eBay, I wouldn’t have made the pile of money I’ve made in the past 4 years. Amen my brutha!!!!  If there was no Ebay, I would still have to work for somebody else. playing by their rules, making all their dreams come true.  I LOVE Ebay.

I’ll go with that, but you have to admit their customer service is total shite. — Best Regards Niel Humphreys Snowdon Computers

Response:

Perhaps I should have a friend send in a complaint about you…ha, get you suspended … that would be a laugh.  See how you feel being unjustly suspended.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I love eBay and may start a pro website. If not for eBay, I wouldn’t have made the pile of money I’ve made in the past 4 years. After a week of trying to find out why (I know that it is a TKO notice) I surrender. Ebay’s service is terrible.  Call the 1800 number, they can’t help you. Follow the directions for sending to customer service, get a automated reply. Send a message to their Safe Harber organization, get a automated reply. Seems that if someone complains about you on ebay, for whatever reason, you now are permanently suspended from ebay.  No discussions.  No facts. Just suspension.  This is a great feature for competators! Look for my upcomming website against ebay in the near future!  I will never do business with that organization again, and I will actively tell everyone I know to do the same.  Ebay is run by dictators who don’t care about their customers. Harris Newman .

Response:

Perhaps I should have a friend send in a complaint about you…ha, get you suspended … that would be a laugh.  See how you feel being unjustly suspended.

You want to think about the logic of that statement, Harris? If you’re genuinely prepared to lie to get people kicked off of eBay, your suspension doesn’t strike me as unjust. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

Look for my upcomming website against ebay in the near future!  I will never do business with that organization again, and I will actively tell everyone I know to do the same.

I love those hate/gripe sites, please be sure and let us know when you post it.  Never much information on those gripe/hate sites, but what the lack in substance they more than make up for in entertainment. I’m the kind of guy that would stand and listen to the prophets of doom on the downtown street corners.  I always left thinking how grateful I was to be smarter than that.

Response:

Should and will are two different things.  Your trian of logic is far from strong here.  1) I was not genuinely prepared to lie (my statement of this in pulic shows that also. 2) My suspension for unknown reasons does  not connect in any way to my above statement. Thus, your a very illogical bitch.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps I should have a friend send in a complaint about you…ha, get you suspended … that would be a laugh.  See how you feel being unjustly suspended. You want to think about the logic of that statement, Harris? If you’re genuinely prepared to lie to get people kicked off of eBay, your suspension doesn’t strike me as unjust. Deborah Stevenson

Response:

After a week of trying to find out why (I know that it is a TKO notice) I surrender. Ebay’s service is terrible.  Call the 1800 number, they can’t help you. Follow the directions for sending to customer service, get a automated reply. Send a message to their Safe Harber organization, get a automated reply. Seems that if someone complains about you on ebay, for whatever reason, you now are permanently suspended from ebay.  No discussions.  No facts.  Just suspension.  This is a great feature for competators! Look for my upcomming website against ebay in the near future!  I will never do business with that organization again, and I will actively tell everyone I know to do the same.  Ebay is run by dictators who don’t care about their customers. Harris Newman .

Response:

After a week of trying to find out why (I know that it is a TKO notice) I surrender. Ebay’s service is terrible.  Call the 1800 number, they can’t help you. Follow the directions for sending to customer service, get a automated reply. Send a message to their Safe Harber organization, get a automated reply.

   Someone already responded to your initial post telling you what "TKO" stood for. It’s the same thing eBay told you in the email notification of your NARU. Don’t plan on being reinstated in this lifetime.

Response:

Try Carnaby… http://www.carnaby.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a week of trying to find out why (I know that it is a TKO notice) I surrender. Ebay’s service is terrible.  Call the 1800 number, they can’t help you. Follow the directions for sending to customer service, get a automated reply. Send a message to their Safe Harber organization, get a automated reply. Seems that if someone complains about you on ebay, for whatever reason, you now are permanently suspended from ebay.  No discussions.  No facts.  Just suspension.  This is a great feature for competators! Look for my upcomming website against ebay in the near future!  I will never do business with that organization again, and I will actively tell everyone I know to do the same.  Ebay is run by dictators who don’t care about their customers. Harris Newman .

Response:

Try Carnaby… Great idea, no listings so you don’t sell as much.  No buyers so you don’t have to waste all that time actually selling stuff. Richard Ward

I meant to type, no listings so you don’t buy as much.

Response:

Try Carnaby…

Great idea, no listings so you don’t sell as much.  No buyers so you don’t have to waste all that time actually selling stuff. Richard Ward

Response:

Question:

  I almost always use a reserve price with a low opening bid, so I   have no idea what ‘game’ you are talking about. The "game," my dear top-poster (please, show respect for others and post in the traditional style), is that instead of bidders bidding against each other, they’re bidding against the seller. I’m sure you know that you’re costing yourself money every time you run a reserve auction instead of a straight one. Of course, cowardice is always costly. YABE

So if I have a rare, valuable item worth say $1000.  I have to either start my bidding at a grand or risk getting nailed if only one person bids ? It’s not cowardice, just good business sense. BTW, I ’stolen’ many a item from ‘brave" sellers that listed with no reserve.  I have two cars on Ebay right now with a reserve and I’ll sell them both. — Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com 58 Transtar Pickup 64 R1 GT Hawk 63 R2 GT Hawk/4 speed 63 R1 GT Hawk/4 speed/AC 63 R1 AT/AC 63 Avanti R3 clone 62 Lark 4 door 62 Daytonas HT/4 speed (sold) 56 Golden Hawk 55 President Speedster (on Ebay)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …when that happens, what’s the point of a reserve? Why not just start the auction at the reserve price <<< Here’s one perfectly valid scenario. Here’s one example. Take a look at the auctions for the Canon GL1. This camera almost always sells for about $1,300. If you start the auction at $1,000 nobody wants it (look at completed auctions and you see this. However, start the auction at $1 and it will always end up at ~$1,300. For some reason, people won’t bid when the starting price high even though that’s going to be end price anyway! Therefore, to me, the reserve price is simply insurance so that I can start the bidding low and make sure that I don’t get screwed by having to let the product go far below it’s fair value. In this case, why wouldn’t I let everyone know the reserve price if they ask?

   You hit the nail right on the head. I’ve started cars at $500, that sold for over $15,000 by auctions end. If a bidder sees 30 or 30 bidders on a item, he also is more likely to jump in if he’s not sure of the value. Many bidders, will toss in a ‘What the hell bid’ early, than get sucked in to the bidding as the auction progresses.    If I started the bidding at 15K, I’d never get a bid, if I started at $500 with no reserve, I risk taking a big loss. — Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items: http://stude.com/EBAY 58 Transtar Pickup 64 R1 GT Hawk 63 R2 GT Hawk/4 speed 63 R1 GT Hawk/4 speed/AC 63 R1 AT/AC 63 Avanti R3 clone 62 Lark 4 door 62 Daytonas HT/4 speed (sold) 56 Golden Hawk 55 President Speedster (on Ebay)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …when that happens, what’s the point of a reserve? Why not just start the auction at the reserve price <<< Here’s one perfectly valid scenario. Here’s one example. Take a look at the auctions for the Canon GL1. This camera almost always sells for about $1,300. If you start the auction at $1,000 nobody wants it (look at completed auctions and you see this. However, start the auction at $1 and it will always end up at ~$1,300. For some reason, people won’t bid when the starting price high even though that’s going to be end price anyway! Therefore, to me, the reserve price is simply insurance so that I can start the bidding low and make sure that I don’t get screwed by having to let the product go far below it’s fair value. In this case, why wouldn’t I let everyone know the reserve price if they ask?    You hit the nail right on the head. I’ve started cars at $500,    that sold for over $15,000 by auctions end. If a bidder sees 30 or    30 bidders on a item, he also is more likely to jump in if he’s    not sure of the value. Many bidders, will toss in a ‘What the hell    bid’ early, than get sucked in to the bidding as the auction    progresses. If I started the bidding at 15K, I’d never get a bid,    if I started at $500 with no reserve, I risk taking a big loss. If self-contradiction ever becomes an Olympic sport, you guys are sure gold medal winners. YABE

   I’ll try and make it simple A.. A low starting bid, works better than a high opening bid for the price you need on a item. B.  A reserve guarantees that if we do "A", and something unexpected happens, the bidder is protected.    I don’t understand the confusion, reserves are a standard feature of most any auction I’ve ever attended. — Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com My Ebay items: http://stude.com/EBAY 58 Transtar Pickup 64 R1 GT Hawk 63 R2 GT Hawk/4 speed 63 R1 GT Hawk/4 speed/AC 63 R1 AT/AC 63 Avanti R3 clone 62 Lark 4 door 62 Daytonas HT/4 speed (sold) 56 Golden Hawk 55 President Speedster (on Ebay)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    You hit the nail right on the head. I’ve started cars at $500,    that sold for over $15,000 by auctions end. If a bidder sees 30 or    30 bidders on a item, he also is more likely to jump in if he’s    not sure of the value. Many bidders, will toss in a ‘What the hell    bid’ early, than get sucked in to the bidding as the auction    progresses. If I started the bidding at 15K, I’d never get a bid,    if I started at $500 with no reserve, I risk taking a big loss. If self-contradiction ever becomes an Olympic sport, you guys are sure gold medal winners. YABE

If "self-contradiction" ever comes up on a vocabulary test you happen to be taking, you’re fucked. Brian

Response:

The protection, my good man, is the market…as you have demonstrated. YABE

Except when bidders are manipulating the system with late bid retractions or eBay crashes/stalls (like THAT never happens). — Bill Shaw Email is munged with an obviously invalid domain. See http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2606.txt para. 3 if you need help figuring it out.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The protection, my good man, is the market…as you have demonstrated. YABE Except when bidders are manipulating the system with late bid retractions or eBay crashes/stalls (like THAT never happens). If you think bidders are manipulating your auction, or there has been an eBay crash/stall that you think effects your selling price negatively, simply cancel the auction. YABE

With bid manipulation, I agree. However, eBay has a habit of crashing during peak times and if happens in the last few minutes of your auction, you don’t have the opportunity to cancel and are then stuck with a below market price per eBay’s terms of use. It’s not a big enough problem for me when I sell higher ticket items (which is infrequent) to bother with reserves, but if someone regularly sells big ticket items with low starts, I can see where this provides essentially free insurance against eBay’s foibles. For my higher dollar items with a decent bidder pool, I rarely need the snipers to hit my target price since the items are relatively distinct. With many other highly competitive products, you’re dead without them. — Bill Shaw Email is munged with an obviously invalid domain. See http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2606.txt para. 3 if you need help figuring it out.

Response:

I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey

99.9% of the sellers I have asked, have told. Some like to snipe in the last few seconds of the auction, to prevent others from running up the bid unnecessarily. Finding out what the reserve is for an item you DO want, is crucial if you snipe! Of course, if it is too high, the snipe will never occur <G! Cynthia

Response:

The "game," my dear top-poster (please, show respect for others and post in the traditional style), is that instead of bidders bidding against each other, they’re bidding against the seller. I’m sure you know that you’re costing yourself money every time you run a reserve auction instead of a straight one. Of course, cowardice is always costly. YABE

So you say… however, one item I sold, NOT rare, and fairly easy to find on eBay, went for $160 MORE than it has ever gone for on eBay in the past precisely because I HAD a reserve. Was the reserve that high? No, but my BIN was reasonable and the reserve made someone bid up to the BIN, in order to stomp it. Then, bidding took off still further, resulting in one banzai sale! Reserves used wisely work just fine for me and always have. Nor, in most instances, do I think that prices would have been higher without the reserves. And yes, if asked, I tell. Cynthia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey This is an auction with an opening bid limit, why the hell would you tell anyone the reserve price?  If they want the item, let them bid up to the reserve like everyone else. Best way to handle this is not to answer the inquiry! And the best way to handle such a seller’s attitude is to stay off eBay in the first place. If they ask, tell them the reserve. Any buyer inquiry you positively respond to can eventually lead to multiple sales. As I rightly said earlier, revealing the reserve is unethical, UNLESS you note in the description of the item that you will do so if e-mailed. Otherwise, you’re creating an unlevel playing field for the buyers. Additionally, if revealing reserves via e-mail should rightly flood every reserve seller with requests to reveal the reserve from every person remotely interested in the auction. And, when that happens, what’s the point of a reserve? Why not just start the auction at the reserve price?

Revealing the reserve = an unlevel playing field for the buyers?  I’ve not heard so much hogwash in a long time. Just like there is in regular business, some buyers are smarter than others.  That’s what’s unlevel — how smart of a buyer they are. A smart buyer will investigate the best product for the best price, for example, finding where he or she can purchase videotapes cheapest.  One store sells them 2/$4.79, whereas the other store sells them 3/$7.99.  The smart buyer will most likely go to the first store, because he or she is getting a better deal. In the same way, if I am a smart enough buyer, I will request the reserve. Because I am a smart buyer, I will have an advantage above Joe Q. Public. An advantage because of knowledge, not because of "an unlevel playing field for buyers." Any seller that wants smart buyers to bid on their reserve auctions will reveal the reserve when asked.  Actually — any smart seller will reveal the reserve when asked. — Dan Sadro

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey This is an auction with an opening bid limit, why the hell would you tell anyone the reserve price?  If they want the item, let them bid up to the reserve like everyone else. Best way to handle this is not to answer the inquiry!

And the best way to handle such a seller’s attitude is to stay off eBay in the first place. If they ask, tell them the reserve. Any buyer inquiry you positively respond to can eventually lead to multiple sales. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Tell them you are sorry for playing the reserve price game, and that you won’t use it in the future. Besides, you’ll get a higher price without the reserve. But, I believe it is unethical to reveal the reserve price.   I almost always use a reserve price with a low opening bid, so I   have no idea what ‘game’ you are talking about. The "game," my dear top-poster (please, show respect for others and post in the traditional style), is that instead of bidders bidding against each other, they’re bidding against the seller. I’m sure you know that you’re costing yourself money every time you run a reserve auction instead of a straight one. Of course, cowardice is always costly. YABE

 … but not nearly as costly as stupidity, where you end up giving an item away. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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…when that happens, what’s the point of a reserve? Why not just start

the auction at the reserve price <<< Here’s one perfectly valid scenario. Here’s one example. Take a look at the auctions for the Canon GL1. This camera almost always sells for about $1,300. If you start the auction at $1,000 nobody wants it (look at completed auctions and you see this. However, start the auction at $1 and it will always end up at ~$1,300. For some reason, people won’t bid when the starting price high even though that’s going to be end price anyway! Therefore, to me, the reserve price is simply insurance so that I can start the bidding low and make sure that I don’t get screwed by having to let the product go far below it’s fair value. In this case, why wouldn’t I let everyone know the reserve price if they ask?

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Best way to handle this is not to answer the inquiry!

What a wonderful example of "customer no-service"

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The protection, my good man, is the market…as you have demonstrated.

The key word is that the market *probably* will move the price towards my intended price point. However, most sellers aren’t going to gamble that it always will. That’s why I refer to reserves as insurance. I technically don’t plan on needing it, but it’s nice to have it just in case. Therefore, I personally have no problem letting others know what the reserve is. Remember that this is one man’s opinion and definitely subjective. I’m simply pointing out what I believe to be a valid reason for setting a reserve in a situation where I don’t mind revealing it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …when that happens, what’s the point of a reserve? Why not just start the auction at the reserve price <<< Here’s one perfectly valid scenario. Here’s one example. Take a look at the auctions for the Canon GL1. This camera almost always sells for about $1,300. If you start the auction at $1,000 nobody wants it (look at completed auctions and you see this. However, start the auction at $1 and it will always end up at ~$1,300. For some reason, people won’t bid when the starting price high even though that’s going to be end price anyway! Therefore, to me, the reserve price is simply insurance so that I can start the bidding low and make sure that I don’t get screwed by having to let the product go far below its fair value. In this case, why wouldn’t I let everyone know the reserve price if they ask? Tom, I’m sure that when you re-read what you wrote, you realized it was hugely contradictory. You say that the auctions for the GL1 that if you "start the auction at $1…it will always end up at ~$1,300." Then, you turn around and claim you need protection from the product going for "far below its fair value." The protection, my good man, is the market…as you have demonstrated. YABE

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I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey

Our policy is to reveal the reserve price on request but never to volunteer it. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer.

Bob,   Before I bid on reserve auctions, I ask for the reserve price. REASONS 1) To find out if I am willing to bid enough to meet the reserve. 2) Because it tells me a bit about the seller, and how he/she acts.  If I get a "the reserve is private and not 4 u to know thats why i set a resurve in the first place" type of response, I avoid it like the plague.  If I get a "The reserve is set at $X." response, I bid.  I, as a customer, prefer people who hide nothing about their auction, and feel more comfortable bidding on auctions from honest sellers.  (makes sense, no?) 3) To find out if the seller knows enough about the item.  If I see an item worth $100 with a reserve at $10, the words "INSTANT BARGAIN" flash on the screen, however the words "CLUELESS SELLER" also flash.  I don’t like clueless sellers because they know next to nothing about the item, and even though the bargain will be tempting, it’s not worth the hassle. I hope I helped. — Dan Sadro

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I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey

This is an auction with an opening bid limit, why the hell would you tell anyone the reserve price?  If they want the item, let them bid up to the reserve like everyone else. Best way to handle this is not to answer the inquiry!

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  I almost always use a reserve price with a low opening bid, so I have no idea what ‘game’ you are talking about. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Tell them you are sorry for playing the reserve price game, and that you won’t use it in the future. Besides, you’ll get a higher price without the reserve. But, I believe it is unethical to reveal the reserve price. YABE

– Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com 58 Transtar Pickup 64 R1 GT Hawk 63 R2 GT Hawk/4 speed 63 R1 GT Hawk/4 speed/AC 63 R1 AT/AC 63 Avanti R3 clone 62 Lark 4 door 62 Daytonas HT/4 speed (sold) 56 Golden Hawk 55 President Speedster (on Ebay)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Tell them you are sorry for playing the reserve price game, and that you won’t use it in the future. Besides, you’ll get a higher price without the reserve. But, I believe it is unethical to reveal the reserve price.   I almost always use a reserve price with a low opening bid, so I   have no idea what ‘game’ you are talking about. The "game," my dear top-poster (please, show respect for others and post in the traditional style), is that instead of bidders bidding against each other, they’re bidding against the seller. I’m sure you know that you’re costing yourself money every time you run a reserve auction instead of a straight one. Of course, cowardice is always costly. YABE

I can see your reasoning for thinking this, but there are other reasons for putting in a reserve. As you have to have a reserve to put in a buy it now price I tend to put in a nominal reserve at an amount lower than the item should sell for so that the BIN price will be available for a while. — Best Regards Niel Humphreys Snowdon Computers

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I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey

Because they don’t want to mess around placing bids on an item.   Most sellers will reveal their reserve price, when asked. Kris

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I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer.

About half the time, a buyer asking what the reserve is on an item is asking because they genuinely want to bid but want to know in advance if it’s out of their price range.  You could check the buyer’s bidding history and see if they bid on similar items with similar price ranges to give you some idea of their seriousness. If it were me, I’d tell them, but then I dislike reserve auctions anyway. http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/ Kimberly’s Barbie Collection: http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/barbies.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey Because they don’t want to mess around placing bids on an item.   Most sellers will reveal their reserve price, when asked. Kris

I’m so glad you said that, Kris. The one time I asked a seller to divulge the reserve, he hemmed and hawed. I wrote and told him that I was the only bidder and had placed a half dozen bids that did not meet the reserve. I said that I had one more bid left in my bidding hand and to reconsider. He gave me the amount.

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I frequently ask because I don’t feel like playing games guessing a price. In fact, I believe the eBay help adivses to ask the seller (not that your obligated to disclose). It only behooves you to let the person know.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey Because they don’t want to mess around placing bids on an item.   Most sellers will reveal their reserve price, when asked. Kris I’m so glad you said that, Kris. The one time I asked a seller to divulge the reserve, he hemmed and hawed. I wrote and told him that I was the only bidder and had placed a half dozen bids that did not meet the reserve. I said that I had one more bid left in my bidding hand and to reconsider. He gave me the amount.

Well at RL auctions the reserve price is always the lowe estimate price.  So I think that it is wise for the seller to let a bidder wo asks just what theri reserve is. I just now bought something quite special and I put a reserve on it . I know how much I would be asking for it at a show,IF I hadn’t decided to put it on eBay. I put a reserve on it for FAR LESS than I would have priced it at. So if the reserve is met, someone still is going to get quite the bargain. : ) Paulette~

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I have a buyer emailing me and asking what my reserve price is on an item I am selling. I am new to selling on ebay and am not sure what to do in this situation. Could any answers please be accompanied with an explanation to help me understand the reasoning behind the answer. Thanks Bob Tracey

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Question:

I’m surprised no one is looking at the other side of the coin.  If all of the BUYERS felt this way, no one would bid on anything at all, because even though the payment can be via PayPal, there’s just about no way for a buyer to avoid receiving something (the item) via the mail (or another delivery service) from a total stranger.  So shouldn’t buyers be more worried about this than sellers?  And if they were as worried about it as you are, where would that leave eBay, and all of its sellers?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride

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I’m surprised no one is looking at the other side of the coin.  If all of the BUYERS felt this way, no one would bid on anything at all, because even

though the payment can be via PayPal, there’s just about no way for a buyer to avoid receiving something (the item) via the mail (or another delivery service) from a total stranger.  So shouldn’t buyers be more worried about

this than sellers?  And if they were as worried about it as you are, where would that leave eBay, and all of its sellers? Well, I think that buyer hesitation is a valid concern for buyers. I’ve added "UPS Shipping readily available on request" to a prominent location in my ads. I have also ordered pre-printed return address labels, because the USPS memo specifically mentions handwritten labels as a warning. Half.com sent out a decent list of suggestions, but I don’t think I kept it. Probably should have posted it here. I wish eBay were more proactive in keeping buyers feeling secure about receiving shipments. Personally, I’d rather eat Anthrax than allow those spineless cowards to influence my behavior.  But I feel that I need to address the concerns of buyers who don’t agree, if I can. Angie

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   1 – There are 300,000,000 million people in the US. 4 have died of inhalation anthrax (one for each 75,000,000). There are about 20 other people with some form of the disease (one of 15,000,000).    What you should worry about is exposure to this winter’s flu and auto accidents.

Here in Ohio more people have contracted Legionaires Disease recently than all the Antrax infections in the US. And nobody knows how they caught this as they have nothing in common. But it wouldnt make too much sense to start avoiding all air-conditioned buildings as a precaution. Years ago there was a famous drug trial wher the state tried to convict the guy by saying the money they consficated contained cocaine residue. The defense countered by obtaining a lot of paper money from the bank, washing it and having a laboratory asses the residue in the water. They found that drug deals are so pervasive in this country that ALL money is contaminated by a very slight amt. of cocaine, yours, mine, and the banks. Now wouldnt it be wild if it turns out that there is a slight residue of Anthrax (and maybe a host of other junk) EVERYWHERE and no matter what place you check out, it will appear very slightly contaminated. Maybe the "terrorists" dont even exist. Obviously the letters exist, but many of the contaminated sites are not associated with those letter. Since the govt stated that most of the contamination is so low it presents little or no danger, I really wonder if this could be the case.

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Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea

Sorry this is ridiculous.  Perhaps people should stop bidding on your auctions incase they get something from the delivery.  Ebay and all online auctions etc are a trust basis to some extent. Perhaps as you suggest you should stop auctions until this ends but the decision is of course yours http://www.peter.leach1.btinternet.co.uk/index.html RMS Majestic — Doctor Who — Irish Setter Freemasonry — Belfast Hippodrome — Family Awards program

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 Here is the half.com e-mail Angie was referring to. Sparky  Dear Half.com Seller, In light of the recent events involving postal packages, we at Half.com want to provide you with some information and guidelines to help reduce any shipping delays, inquires or problems associated with your Half.com shipments. As Postmaster General, John Potter stated, the current postal concern is a concern for mailers and shippers nationwide. As you probably know, there is a heightened sense of alert among receivers of postal packages, but you can help the situation by following a few simple guidelines with your packages: 1. Your shipments should be neatly packaged, clean and professional in appearance. Consider using professional packaging materials to make this an easier process for you. You can find packaging materials like this from most office supply stores, discount retail stores and eBay. 2. The buyer’s shipping address and your return address should be printed clearly and correctly. Always put your return address on every package you ship out. 3. Write the phrase YOUR HALF.COM SHIPMENT directly below the buyer’s shipping address to clearly identify your package. 4. Make sure the items you are shipping are in the condition you would expect to receive them in. They should be clean and free of dust, cobwebs, etc. Please understand that shipping times may be delayed as added security measures are added to the USPS. shipping processes. Be assured we are in the process of communicating these delays to Half.com buyers as well to help them understand and anticipate possible shipping delays associated with their Half.com packages. We want to thank you for you added understanding during this time. The Half.com Team  This an automated email – please do not reply. If you have any questions, please visit the Half.com Help Desk at http://half.com/help. We hope you are pleased to receive special offers and updates from Half.com. However, if you no longer wish to receive messages such as this, simply click here to log into your Half.com account and uncheck the box regarding special Half.com email updates.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m surprised no one is looking at the other side of the coin.  If all of the BUYERS felt this way, no one would bid on anything at all, because even though the payment can be via PayPal, there’s just about no way for a buyer to avoid receiving something (the item) via the mail (or another delivery service) from a total stranger.  So shouldn’t buyers be more worried about this than sellers?  And if they were as worried about it as you are, where would that leave eBay, and all of its sellers? Well, I think that buyer hesitation is a valid concern for buyers. I’ve added "UPS Shipping readily available on request" to a prominent location in my ads. I have also ordered pre-printed return address labels, because the USPS memo specifically mentions handwritten labels as a warning. Half.com sent out a decent list of suggestions, but I don’t think I kept it. Probably should have posted it here. I wish eBay were more proactive in keeping buyers feeling secure about receiving shipments. Personally, I’d rather eat Anthrax than allow those spineless cowards to influence my behavior.  But I feel that I need to address the concerns of buyers who don’t agree, if I can. Angie

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I thought about doing that. I live in NYC. I was going to post on my auctions that: "Payments accepted: PayPal/Money Order/ Check. If you live in NJ I will only accept PayPal" But then I though, screw it! I might be excluding potential high bidders. Why am I going to let this run my life and how I do things! It starts on eBay, next thing you know I’m never leaving my house! Anyway, I think you should accept payment. The one thing these terrorist messed up on was, they chose a virus we can cure! Hell, did you know the Flu claimed 6000 lives last year. You don’t hear anybody getting riled up over that!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Yes, you are. Don’t let those bastards scare you. — "This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System.  This is only a test. Had this been an actual emergency, you’d be writhing on the ground in unspeakable agony, bleeding from every orifice, with your blackened skin falling away in ragged strips."

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Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride

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Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea

I would think so. The anthrax stuff doesn’t come cheap. Why would it be wasted on "nobodies" like you or me? Meaning, actually targeting us with the ‘thrax inside… As far as the residue being on the outside of the envelope because of it having passed through a contaminated PO, as you say, apprx. zero chance of danger by the time it gets to you or me. —         Mac (doogle)

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Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting?

This may be an unpopular response, but yes, I think you are. For pretty much my entire life (I’m 26) we in the UK have had to worry about IRA (and other terrorist) bombs. That includes letter bombs, and I should think most people in Britain at least have an acquaintance who has been at least indirectly affected by one. I’ve opened plenty of letters from Belfast in my life, and I wouldn’t really consider not doing so. It’s not only the IRA either – people like the Animal Liberation Front have used letter bombs. I know more than one person (not family, but I know them) who’s been affected by the ALF, usually because they were too thick to understand what the research these people were doing actually was. (I’m being deliberately vague for a reason here, as I’m sure you’ll understand.) Please understand that I’m not criticising *you* for being worried – it’s only natural to fear anthrax. It’s also natural to fear a bomb in the post. But the risk to you from opening a letter/parcel which: a) you are expecting, b) has a return address on the back (I assume you insist on this already; if not, start doing so now) is about as small as it’s going to get. Let’s face it, anyone who you’ve dealt with in the past might still have your address – what’s to stop them sending you something nasty? Keep a watchful eye, and be suspicious of unsolicited mail, but stopping all contact by post is a bit like refusing to go anywhere by air. I think eBay communications are likely, if anything, to be safer than the norm. I hope this helps you a bit. Take care; David. — Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense — Carl Sagan The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

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"Peter Leach – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea Sorry this is ridiculous.  Perhaps people should stop bidding on your auctions incase they get something from the delivery.  Ebay and all online auctions etc are a trust basis to some extent. Perhaps as you suggest you should stop auctions until this ends but the decision is of course yours

This is not at all ridiculous. I too am in NJ, and have been considering the same thing. I get hundreds of checks and money orders each week and you never know. Not that I think my ass will be targeted, but the possibility exists that something can be picked up while going thru the sorting process.

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MyWholesaleSource.com wrote This is not at all ridiculous. I too am in NJ, and have been considering the same thing. I get hundreds of checks and money orders each week and you never know. Not that I think my ass will be targeted, but the possibility exists that something can be picked up while going thru the sorting process.

You’re safer now, than you were a month ago – when no one knew anthrax was being sent through the mail. Kris

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Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting?

Yes, you are. Don’t let those bastards scare you. — "This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System.  This is only a test. Had this been an actual emergency, you’d be writhing on the ground in unspeakable agony, bleeding from every orifice, with your blackened skin falling away in ragged strips."

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Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride

Considering your risk of death or injury is far greater every time you hop in your car to do an errand, (Far more people die in car accidents every year than have died from anthrax yet… ) then I’d say, yes, you are overreacting a bit. It’s reasonable to be worried, but limiting your auctions to one payment method may hurt your bidding. I’d say take reasonable precautions when handling your mail and carry on. Get familiar with the symptoms so that if by some remote chance you get infected, you’ll know to see a doctor pronto. Knowledge is power. However, only YOU can evaluate your stress level over this… if the idea of handling mail creates that kind of stress in your life, then it may be best to do what you are thinking about. We all know that stress can be a silent killer. Cynthia

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Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride

Where would they get Anthrax?? It isn’t that easy to come by you know, despite what the media may lead you to believe…

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I’d suggest folks who worry about this on E-Bay take a look at this link: http://www.somethingawful.com/news/10-24-2001/anthrax/index.htm

  and here I thought I was one of the important people You can’t know every piece of mail as today I got an ebay payment by Airbourne Express with the person’s business as the sender’s address so I had no idea.

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I’d suggest folks who worry about this on E-Bay take a look at this link: http://www.somethingawful.com/news/10-24-2001/anthrax/index.htm and here I thought I was one of the important people You can’t know every piece of mail as today I got an ebay payment by Airbourne Express with the person’s business as the sender’s address so I had no idea.

THAT should be a safe piece of mail!    It had to either go directly from your buyer to the Express people he deals with regularly, or through the mail room at the office (they’d know him also). I doubt that *anything* hand-delivered or sent express is going to be dangerous.   It’s those nasty, leaky cheapy envelopes you gotta watch out for.   Our terrorist(s) seem(s) to be very cheap; doesn’t even bother using Priority Mail for his "precious" cargo. Kris

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride Where would they get Anthrax?? It isn’t that easy to come by you know, despite what the media may lead you to believe…

While I think the fear of someone purposfully sending anthrax tainted payment to a seller is unfounded, there are some new risks to evaluate now-a-days.  There is a very minor chance that an otherwise safe letter could become contaminated if it is handled with a tainted letter.  The risk of such transmision is very minuscule, to nil in most cases.  The number of spores transmitted in this manner might not be enough to cause harm, but on the other hand, the letter carriers and processors are at risk simply by being around the letters while it is being handled, so I guess there is a tiny risk of here too. It’s amazing that we are focusing so much on these infections, when many more people die every day from more mundane things.  Although this is a bit more disturbing because someone is purposefully trying to cause harm, instead of it being an accident. Since there is a minor risk, and the alternative is just as easy (if not easier IMHO) to use – why not use it?  Electronic payments are a great time saver for me, not just on eBay, but I pay my utilties this way too.  My phone company and visa take payments over the Internet and my electric, water and gas companies have a phone payment system. Although many more people die in car accidents every day, than from anthrax, and I think I am unlikely to be in a car accident – I still wear my seat belt.  Many people die each year from slipping and falls each year, and although I think I am pretty sure on my feet, I still make sure I wear sturdy shoes and use handrails.  Millions of people die of coronary artery disease, and although my chol level was 157 when they last tested, I still limit the amount of meat I eat.  It’s all about minimizing risks, while continueing on with your life. So – does this mean that because I use electronic payments, the terrosists have won?  No, they only win if we are scared and frightened.  Minimizing your risks, something you do every day anyway, is not being scared, it’s being prudent. Off my soapbox for now, -wherzmypants

Response:

I’d suggest folks who worry about this on E-Bay take a look at this link: http://www.somethingawful.com/news/10-24-2001/anthrax/index.htm Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride

|                       home.freeuk.net/chrismc                       | | ‘I don’t practice what I preach because I’m not the kind of person  | | I’m preaching to.’ – J.R. "Bob" Dobbs                               |

Response:

I have a feeling that the Anthrax situation is not being perpetrated by a Taliban operative, but someone here in the United States who is trying to take advantage of a situation for his or her own personal gain. A while back some White Supremacists had some Anthrax and were arrested prior to being able to do anything nasty with it. Anyone who has a lab and the right paperwork, whether forged or otherwise, is able to obtain Anthrax for testing purposes. And yes, even these people probably don’t think you or I matter.  They’ll be going after CEO’s, banks, research facilities, colleges, the White House or Capitol (capital or capitol?  I always try to misspell that word), the once hallowed halls of Congress and the Senate, the Supreme Court, etc. But maybe you work at one of the above-mentioned places? Just take the necessary precautions, wear a mask if it makes you feel better, as Kris said discard unfamiliar mail (and pre-approved credit card apps), wash your hands afterwards (or boil ‘em in Lysol if you’re REALLY stressed, LOL) and just go forward in life with the faith that things will be okay if you practice a little common sense. Above all don’t stress.  Stress IS the silent killer, and it does other things too.  It causes tension with people you love, it causes health problems which are sometimes subtle, sometimes life-threatening or crippling.  And it’s not a healthy way to live. Relax, survive, live. That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong. Sparky "The Spammer" "Proudly existing on more kill files than anyone else"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments? Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride Where would they get Anthrax?? It isn’t that easy to come by you know, despite what the media may lead you to believe… While I think the fear of someone purposfully sending anthrax tainted payment to a seller is unfounded, there are some new risks to evaluate now-a-days.  There is a very minor chance that an otherwise safe letter could become contaminated if it is handled with a tainted letter.  The risk of such transmision is very minuscule, to nil in most cases.  The number of spores transmitted in this manner might not be enough to cause harm, but on the other hand, the letter carriers and processors are at risk simply by being around the letters while it is being handled, so I guess there is a tiny risk of here too. It’s amazing that we are focusing so much on these infections, when many more people die every day from more mundane things.  Although this is a bit more disturbing because someone is purposefully trying to cause harm, instead of it being an accident. Since there is a minor risk, and the alternative is just as easy (if not easier IMHO) to use – why not use it?  Electronic payments are a great time saver for me, not just on eBay, but I pay my utilties this way too.  My phone company and visa take payments over the Internet and my electric, water and gas companies have a phone payment system. Although many more people die in car accidents every day, than from anthrax, and I think I am unlikely to be in a car accident – I still wear my seat belt.  Many people die each year from slipping and falls each year, and although I think I am pretty sure on my feet, I still make sure I wear sturdy shoes and use handrails.  Millions of people die of coronary artery disease, and although my chol level was 157 when they last tested, I still limit the amount of meat I eat.  It’s all about minimizing risks, while continueing on with your life. So – does this mean that because I use electronic payments, the terrosists have won?  No, they only win if we are scared and frightened.  Minimizing your risks, something you do every day anyway, is not being scared, it’s being prudent. Off my soapbox for now, -wherzmypants

Response:

       3 –  Would someone open an eBay account just to    send tainted mail to eBay sellers?   That’s pretty    inefficient, and they’d probably get so confused when LOL! (I’m sorry, but I had to.) Angie

So did I Kris

Response:

Thanks – best laugh today!  Many a true word … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d suggest folks who worry about this on E-Bay take a look at this link: http://www.somethingawful.com/news/10-24-2001/anthrax/index.htm Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride |                       home.freeuk.net/chrismc                       | | ‘I don’t practice what I preach because I’m not the kind of person  | | I’m preaching to.’ – J.R. "Bob" Dobbs                               |

Response:

I’d suggest folks who worry about this on E-Bay take a look at this link: http://www.somethingawful.com/news/10-24-2001/anthrax/index.htm

Bravo, bravo!  Better than the Onion even!

Response:

Frankly, I think you’re thinking just the way they hope you do. But that’s ok, they’ve been perfecting their technique for thousands of years.( We’ve been busy with other things, like discovering how to harness electricity, going to the moon, indoor lighting…you know.) Sweetie, you need to do what gives you peace,as that’s the important thing. IMHO, it all comes down to there’s no sense selling on eBay if you’re not enjoying the Ride, whatever the reasons. Angie

Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a)quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b)doing PayPal only. I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea It’s all about the Ride

Response:

        3 –  Would someone open an eBay account just to     send tainted mail to eBay sellers?   That’s pretty     inefficient, and they’d probably get so confused when LOL! (I’m sorry, but I had to.) Angie

Response:

Let me start off by saying I’m in NJ, one of the states where anthrax has been found.  I’m starting to get nervous even though I know that an individual’s chances of contracting this disease are zero.  Anyhow, I’m seriously thinking of either a) quitting my auctions til this blows over, or b) doing PayPal only.  I’m honestly afraid of opening up mail from strangers.  What’s to stop someone from bidding on stuff and sending out anthrax contaminated payments?  Am I overreacting? Andrea

I think you’re waaaay overreacting.     1 – There are 300,000,000 million people in the US. 4 have died of inhalation anthrax (one for each 75,000,000). There are about 20 other people with some form of the disease (one of 15,000,000).    What you should worry about is exposure to this winter’s flu and auto accidents.     2 – Don’t open mail from strangers.   Why would you do that in the first place?  We never do — it goes straight to the trash.   We know what mail is expected and we recognize names.  You know who you are expecting eBay payments from.     3 –  Would someone open an eBay account just to send tainted mail to eBay sellers?   That’s pretty inefficient, and they’d probably get so confused when     4 – If you’re going to limit your payments to only ONE type, you might as well quit selling on eBay completely.   Since your goal is to get money from people, decreasing your chances of getting that money is unproductive.     5 – You are reacting *exactly* how Al Qaeda and the bioterrorist(s) want you to react.  They want us to be afraid, to self-damage our economy, and to spread rumors.   Sorry to be blunt, but you’re helping. Kris

Response:

Question:

I agree, entirely.  It is cheap and easy protection.  I didn’t mean to understate that aspect of protection.

As I (imperfectly) undertand it, you cannot defend a copyright in court without first registering it.  You can wait to register until some point that you have to defend it in court, but you cannot go after the offending party for your court costs. That’s the part I didn’t know before. BTW, I would think that distributing your work via MP3.com would be one way to demonstrate that it was your material before a given date. Best wishes, Jim Lowther

Response:

In the UK always PRS. they can at least protect you and aren’t as facist or thuglike in the way BMI and ASCAP are. copyrighting… you can copyright your stuff if it serves your purpose for ego or protection from shady label contracts. The registered letter trick, coupled with a dated (even notarized) reciept from a pressing plant(which also involves a tax exempt sheet) with the matrix # clearly printed should hold up nicely. You want to protect yourself even further pay for your recordings and pressings with POSTAL money orders. I use postal money orders for nearly every major transaction esp ebay. If someone tries to rip you off its a federal matter. — Home Of The Tiltwheel http://listen.to/tiltwheel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi This is my first posting:} I had the impression that copyright law was different in the UK to in the US.   This being because there is no copyright office in the UK. I understood that copyright automatically belonged to the originator, but that they had the onus of proof that it was original – like the "mail yourself a cd" technique ( or mail yourself whatever you want to establish copyright of), although I guess if you really mean business you should mail it to a bank or attorney. In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473

tlan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

Listmates: For "basic" copyright info see the article "Music Law 101" on my web page. email or call with specific questions.  MSK — Michael S. Kakuk Attorney 1717 Harrison Ave. Helena, MT 59601 406-443-7788  Phone 406-440-7090  Fax http://www.kakuk.com

Response:

For "basic" copyright info see the article "Music Law 101" on my web page. email or call with specific questions.

That’s the site I was looking for earlier.  This is the best basic information I have seen on copyrights that relates to music. And it is *free*! Thanks, Michael, for your help. Best wishes, Jim Lowther

Response:

I already uploaded a few that I suppose I could copywrite. Maybe I am just into widshfull thinking and there would be no real interest. But I suppose you never know. I have a few CD’s with the songs on them, Should I not even upload untill I have copywrite. thanks Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree, entirely.  It is cheap and easy protection.  I didn’t mean to understate that aspect of protection. As I (imperfectly) undertand it, you cannot defend a copyright in court without first registering it.  You can wait to register until some point that you have to defend it in court, but you cannot go after the offending party for your court costs. That’s the part I didn’t know before. BTW, I would think that distributing your work via MP3.com would be one way to demonstrate that it was your material before a given date. Best wishes, Jim Lowther

– 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

Aaaargh! I hate posting any real info to a newsgroup because it’s impossible filter out misunderstandings from a short post like this.  But here goes – those posters who said you have the copyright as soon as you write the music down, put it on tape, enter it onto your hard drive etc., are correct.  No need to mail a copy to yourself, no bowing down to the mystic east, it’s not even necessary to put the copyright symbol on it – you’ve got the copyright, it’s yours. However, what you have not done, and what you should do as soon as possible is to "register" that copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office.   This is a simple process (in most cases) and costs you $30 per form.  You can put as many songs on a form as you want as an unpublished collection. Unfortunately, there are three different uses of the term "published" and the copyright office uses an interesting one.  In my opinion, if you upload your music on to MP3, or in any other way make that music available to the public – it’s published for copyright purposes and you must fill out a separate form for each song.  This can get pricey in a hurry.  (Note:  the Copyright Office definition of the term "published" has nothing to do with ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC, and nothing to do with sheet music.) There are other ways around this but the simplest thing to do is to register every tune you’ve got before "publication", as the fed’s define it.  This will get you statutory damages and attorney’s fees (yeah!) should there be an infringement.  And yes, if a song you’ve registered as part of an unpublished collection is infringed on you must file another form (for another $30) to pull that one song from the others and get it its own number – but the registration date stays the same.  More detailed info on my web page article. I hope this helps and I’m glad to see that the overall CIQ (Copyright Intelligence Quotient) of musicians is increasing.  And thanks to the poster with the kind words for my web page.  My site actually generates most of my business these days (clients in 37 states and 4 foreign countries) and I want to ensure that it remains helpful.  Let me know what other entertainment legal issues you need more info on and I’ll see if can generate an article or two. Of course the usual disclaimers: I’m not your attorney; This is not legal advice; Call an attorney who knows your particular fact situation etc. Keep it real, MSK — Michael S. Kakuk Attorney 1717 Harrison Ave. Helena, MT 59601 406-443-7788  Phone 406-440-7090  Fax 800-467-2305  Toll Free http://www.kakuk.com

Response:

You can register formally, but that can get in to some serious change. There are different ways. Copyrighting a piece (one song) or an entire work (an album) Depending on how you do it, it costs some dough. The mail trick is kind of a fail safe kinda thing. And it is DARN Cheap. I am not sure about UK laws. There are a ton of sites that help with copyright protection etc. I will dig around, and try to post one here ASAP. Oh I found one quick http://www.musiclibraryassoc.org/Copyright/copyhome.htm Good Luck!! Take it easy, Dave at Indoor Storm http://www.indoorstorm.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi This is my first posting:} I had the impression that copyright law was different in the UK to in the US.   This being because there is no copyright office in the UK. I understood that copyright automatically belonged to the originator, but that they had the onus of proof that it was original – like the "mail yourself a cd" technique ( or mail yourself whatever you want to establish copyright of), although I guess if you really mean business you should mail it to a bank or attorney. In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

You can do it yourself for almost nothing and be protected to the highest extent of the law.  The "mail yourself a letter" trick is not really the best route. Check out the following site for an overview on the steps and documents you need to obtain: http://www.kakuk.com/copyright.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can register formally, but that can get in to some serious change. There are different ways.

Response:

No formal registration is required, the artist retains all rights and protections.  However, in the absence of formal registration, the burden of proof is a bit more challenging.

I believed this for years.  However, it appears that full protection, including indemnity from court costs, is available to those have applied for "timely registration" of the copyright, a definition which varies depending upon whether the material is published or unpublished. Everything you write is protected by copyright at the moment of creation. However, proving and protecting that copyright is more problematic. A significant problem with the "mail yourself a CD" defense is the fact that you could always mail yourself an unsealed envelope by registered mail, and then slip anything in an seal it at your own convenience at a later date. Filing for a copyright is relatively easy (you can do it yourself), and only costs $15-$20. This may help: http://www.aracnet.com/~schornj/index.shtml Best wishes, Jim Lowther

Response:

I agree, entirely.  It is cheap and easy protection.  I didn’t mean to understate that aspect of protection.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No formal registration is required, the artist retains all rights and protections.  However, in the absence of formal registration, the burden of proof is a bit more challenging. I believed this for years.  However, it appears that full protection, including indemnity from court costs, is available to those have applied for "timely registration" of the copyright, a definition which varies depending upon whether the material is published or unpublished. Everything you write is protected by copyright at the moment of creation. However, proving and protecting that copyright is more problematic. A significant problem with the "mail yourself a CD" defense is the fact that you could always mail yourself an unsealed envelope by registered mail, and then slip anything in an seal it at your own convenience at a later date. Filing for a copyright is relatively easy (you can do it yourself), and only costs $15-$20. This may help: http://www.aracnet.com/~schornj/index.shtml Best wishes, Jim Lowther

Response:

Hi This is my first posting:} I had the impression that copyright law was different in the UK to in the US.   This being because there is no copyright office in the UK. I understood that copyright automatically belonged to the originator, but that they had the onus of proof that it was original – like the "mail yourself a cd" technique ( or mail yourself whatever you want to establish copyright of), although I guess if you really mean business you should mail it to a bank or attorney. In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473 tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473

tic.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

It is very easy to protect yourself.  Thankfully, BMI and ASCAP help keep the government out of the industry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473 n tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

No formal registration is required, the artist retains all rights and protections.  However, in the absence of formal registration, the burden of proof is a bit more challenging. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/    Kevin D.

Response:

I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite,

There is definitely an advantage to "timely registration" of a copyright.  If the $60 to $70 is a blanket fee then it is a good deal, but if not you can do it yourself for merely the registration fee ($15.00?  $20.00–it was recently lowered).  You can register a copyright for your sound recording if you don’t want to score your composition, and you can register a block of songs (cheaper) and if need be later ammend the registration for individual works.  I had links for all this stuff but recently lost them when I upgraded my OS.  One good one was a site from a lawyer guitarist who frquents this NG, so if you are in luck, he may respond. Best wishes, Jim Lowther

Response:

Question:

Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? If you save the "listing confirmation" e-mails, go  back 5, 7, or 10 days and then click on the links in the individual messages that are ending today.

Gawd, what a PITA solution.  Use this: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=XXXX… Replace XXXXXX with your seller ID.  Bookmark it. — Something different.  I just read that almost 10% of folks listening to web-based radio are tuned to http://www.texasrebelradio.com .  That’s amazing.  And fun to listen to (see "spinning now")

Response:

 Ask and ye shall receive… giggle.. Glad I could contribute!! Nadine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks a lot!  The past week or two of bugginess I’ve been trying every workaround that has worked in the past without success, but this one was the first to actually work.  One more bookmark to add to the list.  This was greatly appreciated. Richard Ward

Response:

Thanks Nadine, I had forgotten about this trick. Charley

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just accessed My eBay site through ebay UK…. worked slick.  Saw my current bids and although I haven’t tried it, I would imagine you could relist this way too……here’s the link I used….. http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbayLogin Nadine Tonight (and it has been happening on other nights, too) when I log into My Ebay, and click on SELLING, I get the PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED error, or sometimes SERVER NOT FOUND. Plan B = search by seller and type in my user ID. Same ol’ eBay beta testing bugs as listed above. Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? Thanks Brandon

Response:

Woo-hoo! Nadine gets the award for "thinking outside the box." Not only can I finally see my completed auctions, but now I know their value in pounds! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just accessed My eBay site through ebay UK…. worked slick.  Saw my current bids and although I haven’t tried it, I would imagine you could relist this way too……here’s the link I used….. http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbayLogin Nadine Tonight (and it has been happening on other nights, too) when I log into My Ebay, and click on SELLING, I get the PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED error, or sometimes SERVER NOT FOUND. Plan B = search by seller and type in my user ID. Same ol’ eBay beta testing bugs as listed above. Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? Thanks Brandon

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This may have already been mentioned, but whenever the "selling" tab is not working at My eBay, just click on the "All" tab and you’ll get a list of your sales. Took me a while to discover this but have used it successfully several nights this past week when "selling" tab wasn’t working. Stuart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Ask and ye shall receive… giggle.. Glad I could contribute!! Nadine Thanks a lot!  The past week or two of bugginess I’ve been trying every workaround that has worked in the past without success, but this one was the first to actually work.  One more bookmark to add to the list.  This was greatly appreciated. Richard Ward

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This may have already been mentioned, but whenever the "selling" tab is not working at My eBay, just click on the "All" tab and you’ll get a list of your sales. Took me a while to discover this but have used it successfully several nights this past week when "selling" tab wasn’t working.

Gooder’n that, bookmark this: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedI… Replace the XXXXXX with your seller ID. This will give you not only your current auctions, but also any closing in the last month.  Useful for looking up closing bids, buyer’s emails, etc. http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=XXXX… will give you active auctions only. — Something different.  I just read that almost 10% of folks listening to web-based radio are tuned to http://www.texasrebelradio.com .  That’s amazing.  And fun to listen to (see "spinning now")

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Its been skipping on me tonight. It goes out, then five minutes later, its back up, now its down again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just accessed My eBay site through ebay UK…. worked slick.  Saw my current bids and although I haven’t tried it, I would imagine you could relist this way too……here’s the link I used….. http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbayLogin Nadine Tonight (and it has been happening on other nights, too) when I log into My Ebay, and click on SELLING, I get the PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED error, or sometimes SERVER NOT FOUND. Plan B = search by seller and type in my user ID. Same ol’ eBay beta testing bugs as listed above. Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? Thanks Brandon

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Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale?

If you save the "listing confirmation" e-mails, go  back 5, 7, or 10 days and then click on the links in the individual messages that are ending today.

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YAY, Nadine! May I have your autograph? Kris Bowing low at your brilliance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just accessed My eBay site through ebay UK…. worked slick.  Saw my current bids and although I haven’t tried it, I would imagine you could relist this way too……here’s the link I used….. http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbayLogin Nadine Tonight (and it has been happening on other nights, too) when I log into My Ebay, and click on SELLING, I get the PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED error, or sometimes SERVER NOT FOUND. Plan B = search by seller and type in my user ID. Same ol’ eBay beta testing bugs as listed above. Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? Thanks Brandon

Response:

Tonight (and it has been happening on other nights, too) when I log into My Ebay, and click on SELLING, I get the PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED error, or sometimes SERVER NOT FOUND. Plan B = search by seller and type in my user ID. Same ol’ eBay beta testing bugs as listed above. Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? Thanks Brandon

Response:

I just accessed My eBay site through ebay UK…. worked slick.  Saw my current bids and although I haven’t tried it, I would imagine you could relist this way too……here’s the link I used….. http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbayLogin Nadine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tonight (and it has been happening on other nights, too) when I log into My Ebay, and click on SELLING, I get the PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED error, or sometimes SERVER NOT FOUND. Plan B = search by seller and type in my user ID. Same ol’ eBay beta testing bugs as listed above. Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? Thanks Brandon

Response:

Thanks a lot!  The past week or two of bugginess I’ve been trying every workaround that has worked in the past without success, but this one was the first to actually work.  One more bookmark to add to the list.  This was greatly appreciated. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just accessed My eBay site through ebay UK…. worked slick.  Saw my current bids and although I haven’t tried it, I would imagine you could relist this way too……here’s the link I used….. http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbayLogin Nadine Tonight (and it has been happening on other nights, too) when I log into My Ebay, and click on SELLING, I get the PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED error, or sometimes SERVER NOT FOUND. Plan B = search by seller and type in my user ID. Same ol’ eBay beta testing bugs as listed above. Aside from punching in the item #s, is there any other easy way to see the status of what I’ve got for sale? Thanks Brandon

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Question:

Anybody know whats up with eBay? Site is ‘Down’. — Thanks again for your business; I really appreciate it! Ric Roberts New York City Current Running Auctions: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=nyuboy

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Anybody know whats up with eBay? Site is ‘Down’

There is not a computer site in the world that does not go down from time to time. And never will be.

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eBay does seem to go down more than most though.  It seems at times that they are sacrificing stability to keep adding new features, and it’s not entirely clear who these new features benefit. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know whats up with eBay? Site is ‘Down’ There is not a computer site in the world that does not go down from time to time. And never will be.

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eBay does seem to go down more than most though.  It seems at times that they are sacrificing stability to keep adding new features, and it’s not entirely clear who these new features benefit. Richard Ward

I agree Richard. At least they are trying, although some of the new things don’t seem to be much. What did you do with all the comics – hope you made some money. John

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Anybody know whats up with eBay? Site is ‘Down’.

Well, if it’s down, then I guess nothing’s up. Ron

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I haven’t had time to get to the bookstore and get the book that was recommended yet, I’ve been a little too busy.  I’m not sure whether I’ll make any money on them or not, but you never know till you try. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – eBay does seem to go down more than most though.  It seems at times that they are sacrificing stability to keep adding new features, and it’s not entirely clear who these new features benefit. Richard Ward I agree Richard. At least they are trying, although some of the new things don’t seem to be much. What did you do with all the comics – hope you made some money. John

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eBay does seem to go down more than most though.  It seems at times that they are sacrificing stability to keep adding new features, and it’s not entirely clear who these new features benefit. Richard Ward

I wonder… How many of ebay’s outages are due to hackers? Bill Funk bfunk1 on eBay

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Anybody know whats up with eBay? Site is ‘Down’. Well, if it’s down, then I guess nothing’s up. Ron

And, while down is nice, up is nicer. Bill Funk bfunk1 on eBay

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They’ve had a few denial of service attacks, but when they bring out a new feature, and the system immediately starts acting up, it sounds more like inadequate testing than outside interference. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – eBay does seem to go down more than most though.  It seems at times that they are sacrificing stability to keep adding new features, and it’s not entirely clear who these new features benefit. Richard Ward I wonder… How many of ebay’s outages are due to hackers? Bill Funk bfunk1 on eBay

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Question:

On the funny side, one of the Cattitudes books has a grey cat behind a red "Beware of Dog" sign, and is subtitled "… and don’t trust the cat, either!" On the weird side, Stoney Creek put out an insect sampler, which has an earwig Kilmeny Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I had another thought enter my mind. I am curious what the weirdest, silliest, funniest pattern you have ever seen and/or stitched, is? The one I saw is at a LNS near the village I used to live in and it was a cross stitch pattern of a worm. I do not know who the designer is. That is too long ago. But it has always stuck in my mind. I wish now I had the money so I could have bought it… Nathalie

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I’m partial to the one I’m working on now. It’s from a Leisure Arts book and the pattern is two gray bunnies with a sign that says "This house is protected by Killer Dust Bunnies".

Hey… I’m doing that one too… (it’s my travelling piece.. the smallest of all my WIPs right now)…..! Mine has two bunnies around an Aunt Tizzy (?) in her bathrobe.  I used sparkly fringy stuff for her slippers and fuzzy whisper for her robe collar. Too cute. Sally

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It’s the one with the mice skating with their bras in their hands.  It says something like "take your bra off, it drives the cats crazy". I LOVE IT!!! Can anyone help me with the designer name on this one? Kris…:) Was that the complimentary pattern issued by Twisted Threads several years ago?

Yep, it’s a Twisted Thread chart called Drive the Cats Crazy. It’s done on an extremely bright pink fabric from R&R with Sampler Threads and a pair of really cute rollerskate buttons. There’s a mouse zipping along on rollerskates with the saying "I love to take my bra off and drive the cats crazy". I actually finished this one; it worked up very quickly. Kathy K — X/USA/S/-/-/-/27B/Monolog in Blue, chameleon freebie/X,Bw,D,P/E,L/D,S,Od/:-P~ /S/M+/B/b/R-/S/K-/E+/L/G-/Wo/Sam Elliott/David Weber/pizza

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I just saw this pattern — it’s called "Frog Music."  You’ve heard of kitten-on-the-keys? Well, this one is frogs-on-the-keys.  As soon as I saw it I thought "weeeeeiiiirrrd!" It’s quite colorful, actually, and if you like frogs … you can see it at http://www.cross-stitch.net/    (first page) –Rosaleah (Come to think of it, I may get this one to work up for my DH, a published music critic who has a frog collection … weeeeeeiiiirrddd!!)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I had another thought enter my mind. I am curious what the weirdest, silliest, funniest pattern you have ever seen and/or stitched, is? The one I saw is at a LNS near the village I used to live in and it was a cross stitch pattern of a worm. I do not know who the designer is. That is too long ago. But it has always stuck in my mind. I wish now I had the money so I could have bought it… Nathalie

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Can somebody help me with the name to this design? It sounds so cute. Beth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Kathy Koestner) writes: It’s the one with the mice skating with their bras in their hands.  It says something like "take your bra off, it drives the cats crazy". I LOVE IT!!! Can anyone help me with the designer name on this one? Kris…:) Was that the complimentary pattern issued by Twisted Threads several years ago? Yep, it’s a Twisted Thread chart called Drive the Cats Crazy. It’s done on an extremely bright pink fabric from R&R with Sampler Threads and a pair of really cute rollerskate buttons. There’s a mouse zipping along on rollerskates with the saying "I love to take my bra off and drive the cats crazy". I actually finished this one; it worked up very quickly. Kathy K —

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I have a leaflet of four stitcher birds, which is just hilarious.  Species: Evenweave Fabric Stabber.  Migration pattern: to/from LNS Habitat: cluttered nest Diet: anything someone else prepares Latin Name: Avid Needleworker

Hey Karen, I actally got this as a present for my Mom back in 82. She still has it, and if she ever decides to get rid of it, I will be right there with my hot little hands to grab it. You know, I should borrow it to do these for my cluttered nest. I do love them. Elizabeth

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I designed this leaflet years ago while I was free lancing for Designs by Gloria and Pat, and I still have ten copies in my stock.  Since I’ve already promised one copy to Rita, because she signs herself "The Alabama Evenweave Fabricstabber,"  the first nine people who send me their snail mail address will receive one free in the mail.. My sense of humor is a little quirky, and I doubt that you’ll actually want to stitch one of the designs, but they’re fun to look at and have in your stash.  Yours, — Martha Schmidt http://needlemaid.home.att.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a leaflet of four stitcher birds, which is just hilarious. Species: Evenweave Fabric Stabber.  Migration pattern: to/from LNS Habitat: cluttered nest Diet: anything someone else prepares Latin Name: Avid Needleworker Hey Karen, I actally got this as a present for my Mom back in 82. She still has it, and if she ever decides to get rid of it, I will be right there with my hot little hands to grab it. You know, I should borrow it to do these for my cluttered nest. I do love them. Elizabeth

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I love quirky!!! If it’s not too late, my snail addy is: Jackie Tindall 105 Killington Williamsburg, VA 23188 TIA! Jacqueline Tindall

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Martha I’d love a copy if they aren’t all gone! Ellen Schell 10644 Tancred Street Northglenn CO  80234 Course, I’d have to do it just to show my husband I’m not a completely unidentified species! Thanks for your offer (even if I don’t get one, it was SO nice of you to do) Ellen (in Denver) – When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I love quirky!!! If it’s not too late, my snail addy is: Oh please, please – Jackie and MommaSchell, PLEASE don’t make your snail mail addresses that available to ANYONE! They look to be actual street addresses rather than nice, fairly safe box addresses. Yes, this is OT, but it’s important enough that I’m going to get up on my soapbox (heavily reinforced, of course, as I, too, am a woman of magnificent size). PLEASE think about information security for you and your families – and do it before you have reason to regret what information is available to others. Once information is out, you absolutely cannot get it back – and there might easily come a time when that’s a problem. Some of you know that my daughter and I were targeted by a stalker who started online and then moved things to the "real world" back in 1996 – he’s still out there. Now I work with Women Halting Online Abuse to help others who are being harassed. I get cases just about every day in which someone is being harassed, and whenever the harasser CAN get the person’s phone number(s) and snail mail addresses, the harassment usually moves offline, as well. Just this week I heard from several women who are being harassed because of someone who took a dislike to them on the message boards at EBay and started sending them email bombs (trying to fill up their email boxes so they couldn’t use them any more) and then started making harassing phone calls and threatening remarks about knowing where they live. (Are you aware that ANY registered EBay user can get your contact info just for asking if you are a registered EBay user? They don’t have to be involved in a transaction with you to do so.) Another fellow is being harassed because he entered a negative remark in a seller’s half.com feedback after receiving a pirated CD from the man rather than the promised original CD he thought he was buying. In a third case, a woman was tracked down by a freak who’d had a crush on her back in high school (15 years ago) and is determined that they’re going to be together now – and he was able to get her work and home addresses and phone numbers quite easily on the net. Yet another woman has a man threatening to kill her 4-year-old daughter because he apparently didn’t like her email address. In another case, people who disagreed with fellow’s views posted on a message board about a TV show are trying to get him fired by repeatedly ordering various sorts of sexually explicit materials and sending them to him at his his work address. None of these people thought anything about, for instance, posting on the net using their work email addresses, or mentioning that their kid goes to such and such a school in Podunk, TX, or that they go to a particular church and are always there late on Wednesday nights for choir practice. Now they wish they could take back that information, and it’s too late. Use a drop box address for everything instead of getting things at your home or work address – really, they aren’t very expensive (check with Mailboxes Etc. and similar places – they actually have a better track record of not giving out info on their customers without proper legal paperwork than the US post office does – I don’t know anything about the post offices in other countries). If you must give out a valid phone number – say, because you are doing business on EBay or elsewhere – get one at EFax.com or Onebox.com and use it. There’s a great book called Not an Easy Target by Paxton Quigley that I wish everyone would read "just in case." There’s more info on my web site at http://www.technomom.com/privacy.html if you’re interested. Cyn (putting away the soapbox)

Cyn, I didn’t snip any of your posting because it is so important, and some new servers may not have passed along the original. There’s a short section on not posting personal information in Kathy’s most excellent *weekly* posting, "Welcome to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework." Folks, everybody really should read the whole "Welcome" posting at least once…and the *posted-twice-a-week* "Newcomers to RCTN – Please Read!" posting, also. C’mon, read ‘em…pretty please! Nan Evelyn

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|I’m partial to the one I’m working on now. It’s from a Leisure Arts book and |the pattern is two gray bunnies with a sign that says "This house is protected |by Killer Dust Bunnies".   <delurk   My mother bought a little cross-stitched piece many years ago (before I became addicted to said craft) that has a little mouse holding a feather duster.  Beneath the mouse it says:         You can touch my dust, but please don’t write in it. Quite appropriate for both of our homes – wish I could buy the pattern so I might stitch it for my house… Erica </delurk — Replace NOSPAM with nortelnetworks to reply       The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not necessarily those of Nortel Networks. "If you can see the obstacles, you’ve taken your eyes off the goal."  

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The funniest… A hunter and a HUGE moose. The hunter says: Bend down, so I can get a shot at you or, still a moose involved (a swedish cartoon), sitting in a tree, hiding from the hunter and saying: Can’t they cope with the sauce… Elisabeth WIP: Lily Table Topper (own design), Morning Dew Drop (Pinn-Stitch)

Response:

I have a leaflet of four stitcher birds, which is just hilarious.  Species: Evenweave Fabric Stabber.  Migration pattern: to/from LNS Habitat: cluttered nest Diet: anything someone else prepares Latin Name: Avid Needleworker It haunted me from 1982 (when I was too poor to buy anything I wasn’t going to stitch as a gift) till a couple years ago (when I found it for $1 in the clearance bin).   I doubt I’ll ever stitch it, but I do haul it out from time to time to snicker at it. — Finished 7/30/00 – Teen Creed WIP: #1 – getting my health back wedding sampler, California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco) Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

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I looked in my mailbox today, and there it was, a wonderful booklet from Martha Schmidt!  "Classic Oriental Designs"- one I didn’t already have, and the designs are wonderful.  I love oriental stuff!!!!  I think I will have to do the fish first (: THANK YOU!!!!! – Ruth Mays Cinnaminson, NJ The trouble with being an adult is that it takes up so much of my time…

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I would love to have this leaflet, so if it is not too late, please send one to: Elisabeth Helsing Falev