Question:
I agree, entirely. It is cheap and easy protection. I didn’t mean to understate that aspect of protection.
As I (imperfectly) undertand it, you cannot defend a copyright in court without first registering it. You can wait to register until some point that you have to defend it in court, but you cannot go after the offending party for your court costs. That’s the part I didn’t know before. BTW, I would think that distributing your work via MP3.com would be one way to demonstrate that it was your material before a given date. Best wishes, Jim Lowther
Response:
In the UK always PRS. they can at least protect you and aren’t as facist or thuglike in the way BMI and ASCAP are. copyrighting… you can copyright your stuff if it serves your purpose for ego or protection from shady label contracts. The registered letter trick, coupled with a dated (even notarized) reciept from a pressing plant(which also involves a tax exempt sheet) with the matrix # clearly printed should hold up nicely. You want to protect yourself even further pay for your recordings and pressings with POSTAL money orders. I use postal money orders for nearly every major transaction esp ebay. If someone tries to rip you off its a federal matter. — Home Of The Tiltwheel http://listen.to/tiltwheel
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi This is my first posting:} I had the impression that copyright law was different in the UK to in the US. This being because there is no copyright office in the UK. I understood that copyright automatically belonged to the originator, but that they had the onus of proof that it was original – like the "mail yourself a cd" technique ( or mail yourself whatever you want to establish copyright of), although I guess if you really mean business you should mail it to a bank or attorney. In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473
tlan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
Listmates: For "basic" copyright info see the article "Music Law 101" on my web page. email or call with specific questions. MSK — Michael S. Kakuk Attorney 1717 Harrison Ave. Helena, MT 59601 406-443-7788 Phone 406-440-7090 Fax http://www.kakuk.com
Response:
For "basic" copyright info see the article "Music Law 101" on my web page. email or call with specific questions.
That’s the site I was looking for earlier. This is the best basic information I have seen on copyrights that relates to music. And it is *free*! Thanks, Michael, for your help. Best wishes, Jim Lowther
Response:
I already uploaded a few that I suppose I could copywrite. Maybe I am just into widshfull thinking and there would be no real interest. But I suppose you never know. I have a few CD’s with the songs on them, Should I not even upload untill I have copywrite. thanks Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree, entirely. It is cheap and easy protection. I didn’t mean to understate that aspect of protection. As I (imperfectly) undertand it, you cannot defend a copyright in court without first registering it. You can wait to register until some point that you have to defend it in court, but you cannot go after the offending party for your court costs. That’s the part I didn’t know before. BTW, I would think that distributing your work via MP3.com would be one way to demonstrate that it was your material before a given date. Best wishes, Jim Lowther
– 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
Aaaargh! I hate posting any real info to a newsgroup because it’s impossible filter out misunderstandings from a short post like this. But here goes – those posters who said you have the copyright as soon as you write the music down, put it on tape, enter it onto your hard drive etc., are correct. No need to mail a copy to yourself, no bowing down to the mystic east, it’s not even necessary to put the copyright symbol on it – you’ve got the copyright, it’s yours. However, what you have not done, and what you should do as soon as possible is to "register" that copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office. This is a simple process (in most cases) and costs you $30 per form. You can put as many songs on a form as you want as an unpublished collection. Unfortunately, there are three different uses of the term "published" and the copyright office uses an interesting one. In my opinion, if you upload your music on to MP3, or in any other way make that music available to the public – it’s published for copyright purposes and you must fill out a separate form for each song. This can get pricey in a hurry. (Note: the Copyright Office definition of the term "published" has nothing to do with ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC, and nothing to do with sheet music.) There are other ways around this but the simplest thing to do is to register every tune you’ve got before "publication", as the fed’s define it. This will get you statutory damages and attorney’s fees (yeah!) should there be an infringement. And yes, if a song you’ve registered as part of an unpublished collection is infringed on you must file another form (for another $30) to pull that one song from the others and get it its own number – but the registration date stays the same. More detailed info on my web page article. I hope this helps and I’m glad to see that the overall CIQ (Copyright Intelligence Quotient) of musicians is increasing. And thanks to the poster with the kind words for my web page. My site actually generates most of my business these days (clients in 37 states and 4 foreign countries) and I want to ensure that it remains helpful. Let me know what other entertainment legal issues you need more info on and I’ll see if can generate an article or two. Of course the usual disclaimers: I’m not your attorney; This is not legal advice; Call an attorney who knows your particular fact situation etc. Keep it real, MSK — Michael S. Kakuk Attorney 1717 Harrison Ave. Helena, MT 59601 406-443-7788 Phone 406-440-7090 Fax 800-467-2305 Toll Free http://www.kakuk.com
Response:
You can register formally, but that can get in to some serious change. There are different ways. Copyrighting a piece (one song) or an entire work (an album) Depending on how you do it, it costs some dough. The mail trick is kind of a fail safe kinda thing. And it is DARN Cheap. I am not sure about UK laws. There are a ton of sites that help with copyright protection etc. I will dig around, and try to post one here ASAP. Oh I found one quick http://www.musiclibraryassoc.org/Copyright/copyhome.htm Good Luck!! Take it easy, Dave at Indoor Storm http://www.indoorstorm.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi This is my first posting:} I had the impression that copyright law was different in the UK to in the US. This being because there is no copyright office in the UK. I understood that copyright automatically belonged to the originator, but that they had the onus of proof that it was original – like the "mail yourself a cd" technique ( or mail yourself whatever you want to establish copyright of), although I guess if you really mean business you should mail it to a bank or attorney. In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
You can do it yourself for almost nothing and be protected to the highest extent of the law. The "mail yourself a letter" trick is not really the best route. Check out the following site for an overview on the steps and documents you need to obtain: http://www.kakuk.com/copyright.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can register formally, but that can get in to some serious change. There are different ways.
Response:
No formal registration is required, the artist retains all rights and protections. However, in the absence of formal registration, the burden of proof is a bit more challenging.
I believed this for years. However, it appears that full protection, including indemnity from court costs, is available to those have applied for "timely registration" of the copyright, a definition which varies depending upon whether the material is published or unpublished. Everything you write is protected by copyright at the moment of creation. However, proving and protecting that copyright is more problematic. A significant problem with the "mail yourself a CD" defense is the fact that you could always mail yourself an unsealed envelope by registered mail, and then slip anything in an seal it at your own convenience at a later date. Filing for a copyright is relatively easy (you can do it yourself), and only costs $15-$20. This may help: http://www.aracnet.com/~schornj/index.shtml Best wishes, Jim Lowther
Response:
I agree, entirely. It is cheap and easy protection. I didn’t mean to understate that aspect of protection.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No formal registration is required, the artist retains all rights and protections. However, in the absence of formal registration, the burden of proof is a bit more challenging. I believed this for years. However, it appears that full protection, including indemnity from court costs, is available to those have applied for "timely registration" of the copyright, a definition which varies depending upon whether the material is published or unpublished. Everything you write is protected by copyright at the moment of creation. However, proving and protecting that copyright is more problematic. A significant problem with the "mail yourself a CD" defense is the fact that you could always mail yourself an unsealed envelope by registered mail, and then slip anything in an seal it at your own convenience at a later date. Filing for a copyright is relatively easy (you can do it yourself), and only costs $15-$20. This may help: http://www.aracnet.com/~schornj/index.shtml Best wishes, Jim Lowther
Response:
Hi This is my first posting:} I had the impression that copyright law was different in the UK to in the US. This being because there is no copyright office in the UK. I understood that copyright automatically belonged to the originator, but that they had the onus of proof that it was original – like the "mail yourself a cd" technique ( or mail yourself whatever you want to establish copyright of), although I guess if you really mean business you should mail it to a bank or attorney. In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473 tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473
tic.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
It is very easy to protect yourself. Thankfully, BMI and ASCAP help keep the government out of the industry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473 n tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
No formal registration is required, the artist retains all rights and protections. However, in the absence of formal registration, the burden of proof is a bit more challenging. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the US I thought you needed to register formally. Anyone know better? Regards Kev Be VERY CAREFUL!! You can always use the "Mail yourself a CD of the music" trick. You make a CD, or CD’s of your stuff, place it in an Envelope, and send it registered mail to yourself. That way it has an official date on it. This actually will stand up in court. (Be sure not to open it!! hehe) The best way, if you are trying to get signed, is to talk to BMI, or ASCAP, and have the songs legally registered as yours. It is a SHADY business, and people get screwed daily!! Just be careful. — Thanks, Dave at Indoor Storm www.indoorstorm.com 3100 Capital Blvd. Raleigh, NC 27604 877-319-8473
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tic.net… I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite, is this just a charitable donation? Better to do these things by yourself, I wonder if there are any advantages or disadvantages Thanks Kevin — 00 < __/ Kevin D.
Response:
I just registered at MP3.com, I have a few songs I want to copywrite. I want to upload these songs but would like them protected. MP3.com have a setup that costs 60 or 70 dollars to copywrite,
There is definitely an advantage to "timely registration" of a copyright. If the $60 to $70 is a blanket fee then it is a good deal, but if not you can do it yourself for merely the registration fee ($15.00? $20.00–it was recently lowered). You can register a copyright for your sound recording if you don’t want to score your composition, and you can register a block of songs (cheaper) and if need be later ammend the registration for individual works. I had links for all this stuff but recently lost them when I upgraded my OS. One good one was a site from a lawyer guitarist who frquents this NG, so if you are in luck, he may respond. Best wishes, Jim Lowther
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