Question:
Welll I can promise you this…you made her angry by going behind her back and talking with others…thats just bullshit. First of all you don’t know the other people from shirlock and therefore they should be trusted no more than the seller herself. For all you know, these other trolls emailing you may be the Kris Bakers trying to find a way to get a competitor NARU’d. Look…people do strange things when under stress…no matter what has actually happened. It does not justify their actions at all. But it does help to keep your business with the seller ONE TO ONE only….and not allow others to become involved no matter how hard they try. If a seller thinks you playin the networking game….they are more likely to say SCREW ALL OF YOU, I don’t need this crap. Worry about about you and you only and don’t let the Kris Bakers out there convince you of otherwise because in the end…Ebay is not going to pay attention to you in a group….they are going to take each and every case one at a time…..no matter what Joe Schmoe said or Lucy Lovel-ass said….(now Kris Baker…that might be different…shes the local Ebay snitch). People have this false idea that in a group they can accomplish more….well in the case of most Ebay sellers this is not the case. Remember the average (I said average) Ebay seller has less than a college education and an even lower age group "set of coping skills". After all…if they were really good at sales and people skills they sure as hell wouldnt be selling their wares on Ebay. There are far better ways to make money. Ebay is ideal for the social skill deprived person because Ebay defines all the rules of engagement ahead of time. Don’t like what a person has done (or what you think they have done)….just tell Ebay they violated the rules and blamo they kicked off…..(Just ask Kris Baker….shes proudly NARU’d several people). In the real world this is not the case….in the real world….people have valid disputes…that must be worked out…..not because some jackass will leave them bad feedback….(whoopy fuckin deal)….but because someone is likely to put a gun to their heads….or kick their sorry ass….or burn down their house….or worse….. The bottom line…WORK OUT YOUR TROUBLES WITH THE SELLER…ONE TO ONE….KEEP THE OTHERS THE FUCK OUT OF IT. Trust me….your seller will appreciate you more….you will get more accomplished and Ebay will appreciate you more….for its one less "OH TEACHER…TEACHER….TEACHER…..THAT SELLER TOOK MY CANDY AND WON’T GIVE IT BACK…JUST ASK LARRY AND JOE AND KRIS AND JIM…THEY WILL TELL YOU….BULLSHIT STORIES….you have no idea how much most employees at Ebay just blow you off because of crap like this)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That applies to unsolicited mailings you moron….NOT SOMEONE WHO JUST MADE A MISTAKE. She did not make a mistake. She deliberately sent the wrong items. To me, and to three other people that I know of (and possibly more – I’m not in the email loop.) She sent via first class w/ delivery confirmation purchased at the post office when priority (with free DC) would have been cheaper. When I reported what I believed to have been a mistake to her, she apologized, told me to "keep the items for my trouble" and that the correct items would ship the next day. Had the correct items actually shipped, I would have returned the first package upon request (and paid for it out of my pocket) as the enclosed are not of use to me. A week after the ‘correct’ package was to have shipped I called and asked for a tracking number (after all, she used it the first time round) I got several stories – she wasn’t at the right computer to look it up, it was an employee who screwed up, the post office must have lost it, anything other than a tracking number. (BTW, during the phone conversation, we did discuss my returning the original items – IFF she paid for it. I don’t have proof of that, all I have is the early email where she says to keep it and the pending refund email demanding its return. Note "its" return – not both packages, just the first.) Her stories to other buyers range from the civil (me) to downright insulting – but *I* personally have caught her in two lies (one being the shipping of a 2nd package, one a contradiction within the phone conversation itself because I must have caught her off guard and she hadn’t prepared a story yet. I suspect the 2nd, more than anything, is what prompted her to go ahead and send the pending refund rather than waiting for me to contact her again to tell her that this mythical package had still not arrived.) Nonetheless, this was no mistake. And in the meantime, she stopped using this account and has created a new account from which she’s bought what appears to be LOTS of Christmas presents. Things I guess she expected me to pay for. Do the right thing for christs sakes and return thier goods. After all you have been refunded. No. I have not. I have a pending refund. Even PayPal agrees that this is not the same thing. I will tell you this much. If you fail to return the goods and she reports back to paypal that you have not returned them (after having received a refund), PayPal will restrict your account pending proof of delivery that you returned the product. Should I actually receive a refund, I will be asking PayPal and eBay my obligations. I do recall the PayPal complaint stating that I may be required to return the original package, and since then have always been prepared to do so. But I’m not putting the cart before the horse here, I’m just trying to find out what options I have should things actually start to resolve themselves. It does not matter….you trolls think its funny to take advantage of a person when they are having problems. She didnt try to defraud you for christs sakes….she shipped a product….just the wrong thing. And now you have your money….give her the damn product back. She did try and defraud me. She may have succeeded (as well as defrauding several other people.) I have worked through ‘mistakes’ with sellers (and buyers) before – and even one rather shady seller. I managed to work that one out reasonably amicably (and eBay permanently suspended her a year later it appears) so I do know how to be polite AND take my hits when necessary. I don’t expect to change your mind as to my character (which you seem happy to insult, while going against the facts to tell me the seller was a angel making an honest mistake) but I did want you to know that I have read your post and will consider your advice should I ever actually get the damn refund. If you have any advice as to the method of return (other than DC) such that I can prevent this seller from further defrauding me, I would appreciate it. Thank you. donna (apologies for being long-winded.)
Response:
I do believe that postal regulations state that you don’t have to return a package that you didn’t order. You did not order the item you received, and you are being issued a refund on the item that you never received. If the seller wants the item back they will have to offer to pay for postage/insurance for you to return the package. A lot of larger online stores do this by including a "return shipping slip" that states they pay for the postage so that they are more likely to get their item back if there is an error. Years ago the postal service implemented a "law" that stated if you receive something in your name that you did not order, you had NO OBLIGATION to return the item and could keep it. It seems that companies figured out they could send you stuff without you ordering it (before the new law) and then attempt to charge or bill you later stating that you had received it. Magazines were one of the worse industries to do it. I would hold onto the item and wait for your refund to clear. Then wait a bit longer to see the sellers actions. You don’t have a timeline, and it’s obvious the seller was doing some scamming. — Saluvuna Posted via MooTalk – Reviews, Articles, Links, & Opinion http://mootalk.com
Response:
That applies to unsolicited mailings you moron….NOT SOMEONE WHO JUST MADE A MISTAKE.
She did not make a mistake. She deliberately sent the wrong items. To me, and to three other people that I know of (and possibly more – I’m not in the email loop.) She sent via first class w/ delivery confirmation purchased at the post office when priority (with free DC) would have been cheaper. When I reported what I believed to have been a mistake to her, she apologized, told me to "keep the items for my trouble" and that the correct items would ship the next day. Had the correct items actually shipped, I would have returned the first package upon request (and paid for it out of my pocket) as the enclosed are not of use to me. A week after the ‘correct’ package was to have shipped I called and asked for a tracking number (after all, she used it the first time round) I got several stories – she wasn’t at the right computer to look it up, it was an employee who screwed up, the post office must have lost it, anything other than a tracking number. (BTW, during the phone conversation, we did discuss my returning the original items – IFF she paid for it. I don’t have proof of that, all I have is the early email where she says to keep it and the pending refund email demanding its return. Note "its" return – not both packages, just the first.) Her stories to other buyers range from the civil (me) to downright insulting – but *I* personally have caught her in two lies (one being the shipping of a 2nd package, one a contradiction within the phone conversation itself because I must have caught her off guard and she hadn’t prepared a story yet. I suspect the 2nd, more than anything, is what prompted her to go ahead and send the pending refund rather than waiting for me to contact her again to tell her that this mythical package had still not arrived.) Nonetheless, this was no mistake. And in the meantime, she stopped using this account and has created a new account from which she’s bought what appears to be LOTS of Christmas presents. Things I guess she expected me to pay for. Do the right thing for christs sakes and return thier goods. After all you have been refunded.
No. I have not. I have a pending refund. Even PayPal agrees that this is not the same thing. I will tell you this much. If you fail to return the goods and she reports back to paypal that you have not returned them (after having received a refund), PayPal will restrict your account pending proof of delivery that you returned the product.
Should I actually receive a refund, I will be asking PayPal and eBay my obligations. I do recall the PayPal complaint stating that I may be required to return the original package, and since then have always been prepared to do so. But I’m not putting the cart before the horse here, I’m just trying to find out what options I have should things actually start to resolve themselves. It does not matter….you trolls think its funny to take advantage of a person when they are having problems. She didnt try to defraud you for christs sakes….she shipped a product….just the wrong thing. And now you have your money….give her the damn product back.
She did try and defraud me. She may have succeeded (as well as defrauding several other people.) I have worked through ‘mistakes’ with sellers (and buyers) before – and even one rather shady seller. I managed to work that one out reasonably amicably (and eBay permanently suspended her a year later it appears) so I do know how to be polite AND take my hits when necessary. I don’t expect to change your mind as to my character (which you seem happy to insult, while going against the facts to tell me the seller was a angel making an honest mistake) but I did want you to know that I have read your post and will consider your advice should I ever actually get the damn refund. If you have any advice as to the method of return (other than DC) such that I can prevent this seller from further defrauding me, I would appreciate it. Thank you. donna (apologies for being long-winded.)
Response:
No buyer is innocent (esp those that wont return things they have not paid for). Most buyers are just like this loser who wants to keep the product even though they have not paid for it. Its not a matter of fairness at this point…its what is the RIGHT thing to do….but alas the buyer no doubt will not listen to my posts and get her paypal account restricted (if the seller is smart). This is the reason why most sellers do NOT trust anyone anymore. Can you blame them? Hell no. Buyers will try everything in the book if they think they can get something for nothing. Seems to be the American way now…sad but true. Just return the ladies things and be done with it. Chalk it up to experience and move on knowing in your heart that you did the right thing. For christs sake dont ask Kris Baker what to do….all she cares about is getting people who compete with her Naru’d and playing Ms, Ebay supercop.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That applies to unsolicited mailings you moron….NOT SOMEONE WHO JUST MADE A MISTAKE. Do the right thing for christs sakes and return thier goods. After all you have been refunded. I will tell you this much. If you fail to return the goods and she reports back to paypal that you have not returned them (after having received a refund), PayPal will restrict your account pending proof of delivery that you returned the product. It does not matter….you trolls think its funny to take advantage of a person when they are having problems. She didnt try to defraud you for christs sakes….she shipped a product….just the wrong thing. And now you have your money….give her the damn product back. Why should the innocent buyer have to *pay* to send it back? OK, I know why, Paypal says so. But that doesn’t really seem right. = Eric I do believe that postal regulations state that you don’t have to return a package that you didn’t order. You did not order the item you received, and you are being issued a refund on the item that you never received. If the seller wants the item back they will have to offer to pay for postage/insurance for you to return the package. A lot of larger online stores do this by including a "return shipping slip" that states they pay for the postage so that they are more likely to get their item back if there is an error. Years ago the postal service implemented a "law" that stated if you receive something in your name that you did not order, you had NO OBLIGATION to return the item and could keep it. It seems that companies figured out they could send you stuff without you ordering it (before the new law) and then attempt to charge or bill you later stating that you had received it. Magazines were one of the worse industries to do it. I would hold onto the item and wait for your refund to clear. Then wait a bit longer to see the sellers actions. You don’t have a timeline, and it’s obvious the seller was doing some scamming. — Saluvuna Posted via MooTalk – Reviews, Articles, Links, & Opinion http://mootalk.com
Response:
That applies to unsolicited mailings you moron….NOT SOMEONE WHO JUST MADE A MISTAKE. Do the right thing for christs sakes and return thier goods. After all you have been refunded. I will tell you this much. If you fail to return the goods and she reports back to paypal that you have not returned them (after having received a refund), PayPal will restrict your account pending proof of delivery that you returned the product. It does not matter….you trolls think its funny to take advantage of a person when they are having problems. She didnt try to defraud you for christs sakes….she shipped a product….just the wrong thing. And now you have your money….give her the damn product back.
Why should the innocent buyer have to *pay* to send it back? OK, I know why, Paypal says so. But that doesn’t really seem right. = Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do believe that postal regulations state that you don’t have to return a package that you didn’t order. You did not order the item you received, and you are being issued a refund on the item that you never received. If the seller wants the item back they will have to offer to pay for postage/insurance for you to return the package. A lot of larger online stores do this by including a "return shipping slip" that states they pay for the postage so that they are more likely to get their item back if there is an error. Years ago the postal service implemented a "law" that stated if you receive something in your name that you did not order, you had NO OBLIGATION to return the item and could keep it. It seems that companies figured out they could send you stuff without you ordering it (before the new law) and then attempt to charge or bill you later stating that you had received it. Magazines were one of the worse industries to do it. I would hold onto the item and wait for your refund to clear. Then wait a bit longer to see the sellers actions. You don’t have a timeline, and it’s obvious the seller was doing some scamming. — Saluvuna Posted via MooTalk – Reviews, Articles, Links, & Opinion http://mootalk.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip PayPal refund] Advice? I really don’t want to shell out the money to ship the WRONG items back (especially as in her FIRST apology email, she said to keep ‘em for my trouble while she mailed the correct stuff tomorrow followed by a phone conversation ehere I’d clearly stated I’d ship them back IFF she paid for it.) Can she really get me in trouble with eBay if I don’t? With the post office? And if I MUST send them back on my buck – what method/proof do I need lest she pull a "buyer never sent/sent wrong stuff back" game? I’m not positive, but I thought when I was looking at the user agreement last week I thought I noted that PayPal does require return of shipment for not-as-described items, which would appear to be this situation. Send it the cheapest way you can with Delivery Confirmation, I’d say. There’s not much she can really pull at this point about the contents except for emailing or calling you–if a PayPal complaint’s been found against her and you’ve got DC, PayPal isn’t likely to believe you sent the wrong stuff that wasn’t the wrong stuff you didn’t want in the first place.
Yes, it does say that under "Buyer Responsibilities" at https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp Feedback suggestions also welcome. Seller gave me praise for timely payment on all purchases and I had, as yet, not submitted anything. Mecurical is perhaps the nicest thing I can say about her at the moment…. If she’s still NARU, you can’t leave feedback, so it’s a moot point. However, this seems pretty damn neg-worthy to me.
= Eric
Response:
That applies to unsolicited mailings you moron….NOT SOMEONE WHO JUST MADE A MISTAKE. Do the right thing for christs sakes and return thier goods. After all you have been refunded. I will tell you this much. If you fail to return the goods and she reports back to paypal that you have not returned them (after having received a refund), PayPal will restrict your account pending proof of delivery that you returned the product. It does not matter….you trolls think its funny to take advantage of a person when they are having problems. She didnt try to defraud you for christs sakes….she shipped a product….just the wrong thing. And now you have your money….give her the damn product back.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do believe that postal regulations state that you don’t have to return a package that you didn’t order. You did not order the item you received, and you are being issued a refund on the item that you never received. If the seller wants the item back they will have to offer to pay for postage/insurance for you to return the package. A lot of larger online stores do this by including a "return shipping slip" that states they pay for the postage so that they are more likely to get their item back if there is an error. Years ago the postal service implemented a "law" that stated if you receive something in your name that you did not order, you had NO OBLIGATION to return the item and could keep it. It seems that companies figured out they could send you stuff without you ordering it (before the new law) and then attempt to charge or bill you later stating that you had received it. Magazines were one of the worse industries to do it. I would hold onto the item and wait for your refund to clear. Then wait a bit longer to see the sellers actions. You don’t have a timeline, and it’s obvious the seller was doing some scamming. — Saluvuna Posted via MooTalk – Reviews, Articles, Links, & Opinion http://mootalk.com
Response:
[snip PayPal refund] Advice? I really don’t want to shell out the money to ship the WRONG items back (especially as in her FIRST apology email, she said to keep ‘em for my trouble while she mailed the correct stuff tomorrow followed by a phone conversation ehere I’d clearly stated I’d ship them back IFF she paid for it.) Can she really get me in trouble with eBay if I don’t? With the post office? And if I MUST send them back on my buck – what method/proof do I need lest she pull a "buyer never sent/sent wrong stuff back" game?
I’m not positive, but I thought when I was looking at the user agreement last week I thought I noted that PayPal does require return of shipment for not-as-described items, which would appear to be this situation. Send it the cheapest way you can with Delivery Confirmation, I’d say. There’s not much she can really pull at this point about the contents except for emailing or calling you–if a PayPal complaint’s been found against her and you’ve got DC, PayPal isn’t likely to believe you sent the wrong stuff that wasn’t the wrong stuff you didn’t want in the first place. Feedback suggestions also welcome. Seller gave me praise for timely payment on all purchases and I had, as yet, not submitted anything. Mecurical is perhaps the nicest thing I can say about her at the moment….
If she’s still NARU, you can’t leave feedback, so it’s a moot point. However, this seems pretty damn neg-worthy to me. — Deborah Stevenson [eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]
Response:
Thank you all for your advice about the seller who shipped incorrect items (with delivery confirmation) whom I then discovered to be NARU’d and in the process of receiving negative feedback. (At some point, the seller made their feedback ‘private’ so I couldn’t tell what the mounting new negatives dealt with. The ones I had seen did not seem to be similar to my situation.) As suggested, I filed a report with PayPal and eBay. Today I received contact from other buyers who had tracked me down (auctions ended 2 weeks ago today) and were in the same situation (they received items other than ordered, their conversations with the seller resulting in seller saying ‘tough, I have receipts’ and tyhem urging me to contact PayPal if I had not already done so.) I started investigating filing a mail fraud, but prior to doing so, I looked up the seller’s phone number and called her. She blamed the whole thing on an employee who mixed everything up (the police had been there that day! really!) and she asked I allow for two more days for the correct package to arrive. I agreed – I didn’t believe her – but whatever. I also said I would be happy to ship the first incorrect package back PROVIDING she provide postage for me to do so. (The first package is mostly useless to me. Actually, the second would have been too given that I’d gone and acquired replacement gift items. 
Update/purpose of this post: I’ve just received a PayPal notice of pending REFUND (waiting for funds to clear) – yippee – with a note attached from her DEMANDING return of the initial package or else eBay/postal fraud will be filed. Not at all like the tone of our (reasonably civil, under the circumstances) phone conversation. (The note also said refund was per my request. It wasn’t actually – as I never discussed the fact that I no longer needed the item AND she was maintaining a "replacement package shipped last week" story that I wasn’t really challenging – we’d only discussed my waiting two more days before proceeding further with my claims. I include these tidbits of information in case the seller is distorting facts in an attempt to further cover her butt? Would it work?) Advice? I really don’t want to shell out the money to ship the WRONG items back (especially as in her FIRST apology email, she said to keep ‘em for my trouble while she mailed the correct stuff tomorrow followed by a phone conversation ehere I’d clearly stated I’d ship them back IFF she paid for it.) Can she really get me in trouble with eBay if I don’t? With the post office? And if I MUST send them back on my buck – what method/proof do I need lest she pull a "buyer never sent/sent wrong stuff back" game? Feedback suggestions also welcome. Seller gave me praise for timely payment on all purchases and I had, as yet, not submitted anything. Mecurical is perhaps the nicest thing I can say about her at the moment…. donna
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