Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O, Buyer Complaint Process, How can I abuse thee? And how can PayPal tell? File enough "Item not receive" or "Item not as described" complaints or do many unwarranted CC chargebacks and you’ll find out. I think PayPal is now considering the common denominator when a problem crops up. This really isn’t anything new. The only difference is PayPal is now making their years old policy public. This is kind of stupid on their part when they can cover it up with the guise of ineptness like they always have. So does this mean that more seller fraud will be condoned? Remove the cc chargeback, and what protection is left for the buyer? With direct bank account access, once the money is removed from the buyer’s account, it is gone forever. The buyer has no recourse against seller fraud. I expect ebay/paypal will soon forbid the use of all credit cards for the buyer. They want to eliminate the cc chargeback capability for the buyer.
Fine with me. I use feedback to judge my sellers, and I send cash through the mail quite a bit when sellers don’t take PayPal. I haven’t been stung yet. CC protection is for the stupid, as far as I’m concerned. I have Khalua in my coffee this morning – can you tell? A
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But if a seller is choosing between taking either a merchant account or a PayPal account, and is doing over $2000 a month in credit card sales, the merchant account becomes the less expensive option pretty quickly. Why would PayPal purposely put themselves out of that market? It seems like they’re encouraging their customers to outgrow them. A
Why compete when you can have the small fry all to yourself?
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But if a seller is choosing between taking either a merchant account or a PayPal account, and is doing over $2000 a month in credit card sales, the merchant account becomes the less expensive option pretty quickly.
I think a lot of people don’t understand that merchant account charges are tiered. They are really cheap for "swiped" card transactions but are pretty much double for card not present transactions. To the point that the transaction percentage fee on Paypal is more than competitive at any monthly volume level. Our direct sale customers usually buy on account or just bank transfer the money. The exception being the ones that issue their purchasing people "procurement cards". But we don’t get many of those.
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Our direct sale customers usually buy on account or just bank transfer the money. The exception being the ones that issue their purchasing people "procurement cards". But we don’t get many of those.
Government accounts? Trading with the enemy, Bart? 
Hey, it’s all green! I’d sell my WMD stuff to Osama if he dropped by.
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Government accounts? Trading with the enemy, Bart? Hey, it’s all green! I’d sell my WMD stuff to Osama if he dropped by.
Word is he is in a condo in Aurora.
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Government accounts? Trading with the enemy, Bart? Hey, it’s all green! I’d sell my WMD stuff to Osama if he dropped by. Word is he is in a condo in Aurora.
No wonder they can’t find him. There are more condos in Aurora than caves in Afghanistan. 
Response:
But if a seller is choosing between taking either a merchant account or a PayPal account, and is doing over $2000 a month in credit card sales, the merchant account becomes the less expensive option pretty quickly. I think a lot of people don’t understand that merchant account charges are tiered. They are really cheap for "swiped" card transactions but are pretty much double for card not present transactions. To the point that the transaction percentage fee on Paypal is more than competitive at any monthly volume level.
I’m not even talking about walk-in customers. But there are a couple of places that do internet only CC transactions, cheaper than PayPal, but there are monthly fees too. You have to do a big volume to cover $25-$30 in gateway fees every month for a "better" 2.19% +.25 rate. I looked into it a while ago, (but I can’t find it right now,) and my laundry will wrinkle if I don’t get down there, but the best I found had only a $15 per month fee, (no setup fees, no credit checks, no gateway fees, all that….) with rates similiar to that above. It would never pay me to do that, but bigger volume sellers easily could. A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our direct sale customers usually buy on account or just bank transfer the money. The exception being the ones that issue their purchasing people "procurement cards". But we don’t get many of those.
Response:
Amendment to the Closing Accounts and Limiting Account access policy Beginning November 4, 2005 the Closing Account and Limiting Account access policy will be amended by including the ability of PayPal to limit your PayPal account if you have abused the Buyer Complaint process.
Interesting . . . they’ve probably had more than a few buyers who continually claim they didn’t receive whatever they bought. Really, all they had to do was look and see if the package had delivery confirmation or other tracking. If not, instant refund!
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Interesting . . . they’ve probably had more than a few buyers who continually claim they didn’t receive whatever they bought. Really, all they had to do was look and see if the package had delivery confirmation or other tracking. If not, instant refund!
I know. Tracking and confirmation can get funny. Earlier I posted about a five thousand dollar sale. To ship that via UPS with Internet billing you have to either have the UPS driver or a counter employee at a UPS company location sign a copy of the on-line UPS invoice. Can’t be a UPS drop off place. The driver grabbed the box and said "OK" how much is it worth. I said "five thousand" and the guy stopped in his tracks. I said "sign here please" and he slowed down real fast. I swear that was the slowest and easiest I have every seen a boy in brown carry a package into one of those trucks. And I didn’t hear the usual "THUD" after he got inside.
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Really, all they had to do was look and see if the package had delivery confirmation or other tracking. If not, instant refund!
That’s how it works now, and it’s problematic. USPS delivery confirmation proves only that a DC label arrived at an addressee’s local PO. And it might be on your item or an empty envelope; no way of knowing. Many a dispute arises from that imprecision, and from part-time temp carriers too lazy to scan at the destination. It works both ways. Once PayPal sees DC for an alleged return, the seller gets dinged no matter what he says about the thing he actually received.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O, Buyer Complaint Process, How can I abuse thee? And how can PayPal tell? File enough "Item not receive" or "Item not as described" complaints or do many unwarranted CC chargebacks and you’ll find out. I think PayPal is now considering the common denominator when a problem crops up. This really isn’t anything new. The only difference is PayPal is now making their years old policy public. This is kind of stupid on their part when they can cover it up with the guise of ineptness like they always have. So does this mean that more seller fraud will be condoned? Remove the cc chargeback, and what protection is left for the buyer? With direct bank account access, once the money is removed from the buyer’s account, it is gone forever. The buyer has no recourse against seller fraud. I expect ebay/paypal will soon forbid the use of all credit cards for the buyer. They want to eliminate the cc chargeback capability for the buyer.
Uh-huh. That’s why the Aug. 19 policy says that all eBay sellers who accept PayPal must accept credit card payments. Next conspiracy theory, please. Abuse is rampant among buyers AND sellers. As PayPal cracks down (or up), each side will claim it’s being put at a disadvantage vis a vis the other. But something has to be done or PP will lose much of its grip on the market. Someone elsewhere mentioned yesterday that while he was on hold with PP customer service, the recorded message reminded him that PP is used for half of all eBay payments – only half! I’m seeing a growing number of testimonials on the eBay boards from purported Power Sellers who’ve ditched PP in favor of BidPay. BidPay, for those unfamiliar with it, offers no possibility of a credit card chargeback. A buyer takes a cash advance from his card, buys a money order from Western Union, and instructs WU to send it to the seller by mail or electronic bank deposit (US sellers only). Credit card companies don’t let cardholders reverse payments made to themselves. BidPay doesn’t need or have a dispute resolution process. BTW, buyers who pay via bank transfer do have recourse. Banks will reverse unauthorized or fraudulent ACH transfers. I’ve done it on rare occasions.
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O, Buyer Complaint Process, How can I abuse thee? And how can PayPal tell? File enough "Item not receive" or "Item not as described" complaints or do many unwarranted CC chargebacks and you’ll find out.
Fine. Just answer the questions, "what’s enough?" and "what’s unwarranted?" I think PayPal erred in using the "abuse" word. The whole concept is more palatable as an improved Buyer Protection Program. Buyers who get themselves in excessive trouble should be protected from themselves, by having their accounts limited. How many times would you let someone shoot himself in the foot before taking his gun away?
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I wonder if they will clarify "abused," or wait for the lawsuits? It is a pretty safe shot for them. No regulators so they can start dictating more and more just like their mamma company. My perception is that buyers cut off by Paypal will raise less expensive hell than sellers. Buyers will just take their business somewhere else. I have said for a long time that eBay’s paranoia will get’em before any competitor does. The incident with the payment I posted earlier this week is an excellent example. They inconvenienced my customer and pissed me off big time. One don’t mean anything but it has to be happening to thousands.
Well, that $2000 cap is going to keep them from being a real player, I think. That thinking just doesn’t work off of eBay. If an internet seller is taking PayPal, then there’s not much sense in even having a merchant account, because most buyers are going to opt for the PayPal option. (Of course, if you routinely sell $5000 items then that’s probably not true. Most internet merchants don’t do that, I suspect.) But if a seller is choosing between taking either a merchant account or a PayPal account, and is doing over $2000 a month in credit card sales, the merchant account becomes the less expensive option pretty quickly. Why would PayPal purposely put themselves out of that market? It seems like they’re encouraging their customers to outgrow them. A
Response:
Amendment to the Closing Accounts and Limiting Account access policy Beginning November 4, 2005 the Closing Account and Limiting Account access policy will be amended by including the ability of PayPal to limit your PayPal account if you have abused the Buyer Complaint process.
Response:
Beginning November 4, 2005 the Closing Account and Limiting Account access policy will be amended by including the ability of PayPal to limit your PayPal account if you have abused the Buyer Complaint process.
I wonder if they will clarify "abused," or wait for the lawsuits? -Bertha — Clairvoyant meeting cancelled due to unforeseen events.
Response:
Beginning November 4, 2005 the Closing Account and Limiting Account access policy will be amended by including the ability of PayPal to limit your PayPal account if you have abused the Buyer Complaint process. I wonder if they will clarify "abused," or wait for the lawsuits?
O, Buyer Complaint Process, How can I abuse thee? And how can PayPal tell?
Response:
Beginning November 4, 2005 the Closing Account and Limiting Account access policy will be amended by including the ability of PayPal to limit your PayPal account if you have abused the Buyer Complaint process. I wonder if they will clarify "abused," or wait for the lawsuits?
Probably wait for the lawsuits. Basic capitalism law: use other people money or work to be rich. -Bertha — Clairvoyant meeting cancelled due to unforeseen events.
I love this
Response:
Amendment to the Closing Accounts and Limiting Account access policy Beginning November 4, 2005 the Closing Account and Limiting Account access policy will be amended by including the ability of PayPal to limit your PayPal account if you have abused the Buyer Complaint process.
==== They must have been dragged kicking and screaming to this one. Perhaps "abuse" should include the requirement of contacting the seller for resolution prior to complaint filing. Guess we’ll have to wait for the footnotes. ==== ====
Response:
Amendment to the Closing Accounts and Limiting Account access policy Beginning November 4, 2005 the Closing Account and Limiting Account access policy will be amended by including the ability of PayPal to limit your PayPal account if you have abused the Buyer Complaint process. ==== They must have been dragged kicking and screaming to this one. Perhaps "abuse" should include the requirement of contacting the seller for resolution prior to complaint filing.
That cuts both ways. Many sellers don’t respond to attempted contacts.
Response:
I wonder if they will clarify "abused," or wait for the lawsuits?
It is a pretty safe shot for them. No regulators so they can start dictating more and more just like their mamma company. My perception is that buyers cut off by Paypal will raise less expensive hell than sellers. Buyers will just take their business somewhere else. I have said for a long time that eBay’s paranoia will get’em before any competitor does. The incident with the payment I posted earlier this week is an excellent example. They inconvenienced my customer and pissed me off big time. One don’t mean anything but it has to be happening to thousands.
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