Question:
Richard, would you care to disclose any relationship you have with Ebay/PayPal? * Kimberly consults the AMOE drinking game rules: –Two drinks for every time someone losing an argument on AMOE posts any variant of "You’re a eBay or PayPal shill" * Kimberly waits for the judges’ interpretation
Twat.
Response:
Richard, would you care to disclose any relationship you have with Ebay/PayPal?
* Kimberly consults the AMOE drinking game rules: –Two drinks for every time someone losing an argument on AMOE posts any variant of "You’re a eBay or PayPal shill" * Kimberly waits for the judges’ interpretation http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/ Kimberly’s Barbie Collection: http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/barbies.html
Response:
I was wondering if this would work: someone pays with Paypal through their credit card into your premier account. You then refund the money, (which goes into their Paypal balance??? – this is what I’m wondering). Then, you can ask the buyer to send his new Paypal balance to your personal account! No fees, and you have, in essence, collected a credit card payment. Any thoughts? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suppose it would be too much to expect them to provide PayPal as a free service to Ebay users seeing as they already hit the sellers for listing fees and commissions? Well, yes, it would. First, when the system was established, it was in competition with eBay, not owned by eBay. Second, the service can be used for all sorts of non-eBay transactions, including payments for auction sites other than eBay. Might cause just a bit of antitrust problems if people using it to receive payments for eBay transactions didn’t get charged a fee, but people using it to receive payments for Yahoo transactions did get charged a fee. Third, the people willing to accept Paypal would have their fees supported by the people who weren’t. If you were an eBay user who only wanted to accept money orders, would you want your listing fees raised to support someone else’s paypal use? As it is, the people who use paypal, in any form, for business use pay for the benefit and support the service. Paypal defines business use as the ability to accept credit card payments. Free accounts are intended for people who buy with Paypal, although they are able to receive money as well as long as they don’t receive funds from a credit card. To me that seems like a reasonably fair arrangement. If eBay won’t offer BIN as a free service, which they did for years, or offer scheduling of auctions as a free service, I think it’s a flight of fancy to expect them to offer Paypal as a free service. After all, Paypal has significant costs associated with it’s operation, particularly with credit card use, while both of the other features I mentioned that eBay presently charge for for would cost eBay relatively little. Richard Ward
Response:
I would be leery of a seller that said "accepts PayPal but not Credit Card via PayPal."
Even if they explicitly say it’s because of the high PayPal fees? Under the current state of affairs, I see more and more "I take PayPal but only for final price of at least $10" and things like "I will refund $1 if you pay by check or MO. I accept checks, MO and PayPal."
Response:
I sent the following email to PayPal today. If others did the same there is a small chance they might change their practises: "I recently upgraded my personal account to a premium account in order to receive a credit card payment. I now find that *all* my received payment are subject to a fee, irrespective of whether they are credit card or not. This is unreasonable and I intend to stop using this service as soon as I can clear all pending transactions unless you change your policies. In my opinion you should NOT allow credit card payments to personal accounts if they can’t accept them.
Their reply will rhyme with "don’t let the door hit ya where the Lord split ya." — Some people learn by listening Some people learn by reading Some people learn by watching And some people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves
Response:
Richard, would you care to disclose any relationship you have with Ebay/PayPal? Whilst I see some logic in your reasoning, I don’t find myself sympathetic to it. Ebay could easily run a promotion with PayPal if they so wished. The fact that they don’t is evidence to me that they reckon it is more profitable for them not to. It’s up to people like me to ensure that it isn’t profitable by withdrawing support for these services. I see many people in this group who have done just that. Good for them! I’m next.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but don’t you think PP has already considered your feelings and gotten thousands of similar letters? The bottom line in business is the bottom line. Not how many people you can make happy, how many dollars you can make. If you don’t understand that, and you obviously don’t, then you can pout and stamp your feet all you want, but nothing’s going to change. They offer a service at the highest price they feel the market will bear. If it doesn’t suit you, do without it, open a merchant account and pay a minimum of $25 a month in fees plus buy a terminal, pay in polished rocks, or whatever, but don’t expect them to change their corporate structure to accomodate you, because it ain’t gonna happen. Look into c2it. — Some people learn by listening Some people learn by reading Some people learn by watching And some people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves
Response:
Here is a thought. If you put as much effort into selling as you seem to put into trying to rip off a business that provides a needed service, you may get somewhere in life. What would your Momma say? — Ron Thompson On the Beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast USA Email me for current special offers on items from http://www.plansandprojects.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if this would work: someone pays with Paypal through their credit card into your premier account. You then refund the money, (which goes into their Paypal balance??? – this is what I’m wondering). Then, you can ask the buyer to send his new Paypal balance to your personal account! No fees, and you have, in essence, collected a credit card payment. Any thoughts? I suppose it would be too much to expect them to provide PayPal as a free service to Ebay users seeing as they already hit the sellers for listing fees and commissions? Well, yes, it would. First, when the system was established, it was in competition with eBay, not owned by eBay. Second, the service can be used for all sorts of non-eBay transactions, including payments for auction sites other than eBay. Might cause just a bit of antitrust problems if people using it to receive payments for eBay transactions didn’t get charged a fee, but people using it to receive payments for Yahoo transactions did get charged a fee. Third, the people willing to accept Paypal would have their fees supported by the people who weren’t. If you were an eBay user who only wanted to accept money orders, would you want your listing fees raised to support someone else’s paypal use? As it is, the people who use paypal, in any form, for business use pay for the benefit and support the service. Paypal defines business use as the ability to accept credit card payments. Free accounts are intended for people who buy with Paypal, although they are able to receive money as well as long as they don’t receive funds from a credit card. To me that seems like a reasonably fair arrangement. If eBay won’t offer BIN as a free service, which they did for years, or offer scheduling of auctions as a free service, I think it’s a flight of fancy to expect them to offer Paypal as a free service. After all, Paypal has significant costs associated with it’s operation, particularly with credit card use, while both of the other features I mentioned that eBay presently charge for for would cost eBay relatively little. Richard Ward
Response:
Richard, would you care to disclose any relationship you have with Ebay/PayPal? * Kimberly consults the AMOE drinking game rules: –Two drinks for every time someone losing an argument on AMOE posts any variant of "You’re a eBay or PayPal shill" * Kimberly waits for the judges’ interpretation
Kimberly gets a 5.6, 5.8, 5.8 and 6.0 in the throw back /toss down section of the competition. She gets the gold! And the crowd goes wild!!! psycho *picturing Kimberly in the Karen Allen role of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" bar scene in the wilds of the northern yak country* "Sharp sword, short temper. Any questions?"
Response:
What I specifically don’t like is the fact that although the PayPal private accounts cannot accept a CC payment, buyers are actively encouraged to use a CC when paying for an item, private account or not. They do this by 1) offering a CC payment option on the auction page and 2) entering CC users into a prize draw. The first thing the seller knows about it is when the auction is over and he has a CC payment in his/her account. This payment is effectively a ransom demand because failure to upgrade and allow it could scupper the auction. I, for one, feel coerced by this tactic.
Coercive indeed. On the other hand, if one clearly states in the terms that credit card via paypal will not be accepted, and the winning bidder goes ahead and pays by credit card via paypal, is one in any obligation to take it? If you claim you accept only personal checks and the winning bidder brings a goat to your front door as payment, do you have to accept it? I know it may sound strange to file NPB on a buyer that already "paid" via CC/PP, but if one clearly stated that it wouldn’t be accepted… Similarly, if a seller clearly rejects any PayPal payments, not even being registered with PayPal, but a buyer pays them via PayPal, one could say that the money is held "ransom" unti the seller registers. The seller should refuse this, right?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The personal account looked great but then one buyer paid by CC and as someone here said, "the party was over". I don’t think it’s reasonable that they charge commission on non-CC payments. Indeed it is unreasonable. My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome. No PayPal deters me to some extent. No PayPal and no personal checks deters me entirely. I saw more than once auction terms clearly stating they "accept PayPal but not Credit Card via PayPal". I don’t know how they deal with buyers that go ahead and attempt to pay with a credit card anyway. I guess one has to reject such payments. I’ll be interested in seeing the other replies.
As a seller who got forced to go the fee route in order to accept ONE $1000 credit card payment–I feel the pain. As a buyer, my preference is to pay via PayPal (for convenience) but ALWAYS to use a credit card as the funding source (for protection). I would be leery of a seller that said "accepts PayPal but not Credit Card via PayPal." I do NOT like paying directly from my bank account at all. Perhaps, paying directly from a bank account, I can get my money back if the seller doesn’t perform–I don’t know all the ins and outs–but I KNOW I can if I’m paying via credit card. — Dan Smith
Response:
I suppose it would be too much to expect them to provide PayPal as a free service to Ebay users seeing as they already hit the sellers for listing fees and commissions?
After they just paid 1.5 billion dollars for PayPal, your idea has the same probability as Meg sending me a $900 million Christmas present because I’m her favorite Elf. You probably weren’t around back when PayPal’s services *were* free, plus they paid out a $20 bonus for every transaction involving a newbie, were you?
Response:
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Richard, would you care to disclose any relationship you have with Ebay/PayPal? Whilst I see some logic in your reasoning, I don’t find myself sympathetic to it. Ebay could easily run a promotion with PayPal if they so wished. The fact that they don’t is evidence to me that they reckon it is more profitable for them not to. It’s up to people like me to ensure that it isn’t profitable by withdrawing support for these services. I see many people in this group who have done just that. Good for them! I’m next. What I specifically don’t like is the fact that although the PayPal private accounts cannot accept a CC payment, buyers are actively encouraged to use a CC when paying for an item, private account or not. They do this by 1) offering a CC payment option on the auction page and 2) entering CC users into a prize draw. The first thing the seller knows about it is when the auction is over and he has a CC payment in his/her account. This payment is effectively a ransom demand because failure to upgrade and allow it could scupper the auction. I, for one, feel coerced by this tactic.
Certainly. I’m a customer of both services. You can find my eBay ID easily enough if you wish, since all eBay IDs associated with eBay employees are required to be disclosed as such, you should be able to figure out the lack of other relationship easily enough. You could have done this before making the accusation. Of course, this would have required that you bother to look before making the statement, which you obviously didn’t bother to do. If you don’t want to use paypal and eBay, that’s entirely your prerogative. Of course, if you’re still listing auctions and accepting paypal while "withdrawing your support for these services" then you’re being more than a little hypocritical. Richard Ward
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Richard, would you care to disclose any relationship you have with Ebay/PayPal? Whilst I see some logic in your reasoning, I don’t find myself sympathetic to it. Ebay could easily run a promotion with PayPal if they so wished. The fact that they don’t is evidence to me that they reckon it is more profitable for them not to. It’s up to people like me to ensure that it isn’t profitable by withdrawing support for these services. I see many people in this group who have done just that. Good for them! I’m next. What I specifically don’t like is the fact that although the PayPal private accounts cannot accept a CC payment, buyers are actively encouraged to use a CC when paying for an item, private account or not. They do this by 1) offering a CC payment option on the auction page and 2) entering CC users into a prize draw. The first thing the seller knows about it is when the auction is over and he has a CC payment in his/her account. This payment is effectively a ransom demand because failure to upgrade and allow it could scupper the auction. I, for one, feel coerced by this tactic. Certainly. I’m a customer of both services. You can find my eBay ID easily enough if you wish, since all eBay IDs associated with eBay employees are required to be disclosed as such, you should be able to figure out the lack of other relationship easily enough. You could have done this before making the accusation. Of course, this would have required that you bother to look before making the statement, which you obviously didn’t bother to do.
I made no "accusation", I simply asked a question. If you say you have no involvement with either Ebay or PayPal beyond that of a customer then I will take you at your word. If you don’t want to use paypal and eBay, that’s entirely your prerogative. Of course, if you’re still listing auctions and accepting paypal while "withdrawing your support for these services" then you’re being more than a little hypocritical.
I can’t argue with the fact that many buyers like PayPal. Given this, I would like to attempt to change the system from within. In order to do this I need to acquaint myself with the arguments in all directions. You have provided some valid points for which I thank you.
Response:
: : The personal account looked great but then one buyer paid by CC and : as someone here said, "the party was over". I don’t think it’s reasonable : that they charge commission on non-CC payments. : : Indeed it is unreasonable. : : My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money : orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having : PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome. : : No PayPal deters me to some extent. No PayPal and no personal checks : deters me entirely. : : I saw more than once auction terms clearly stating they "accept PayPal : but not Credit Card via PayPal". I don’t know how they deal with buyers : that go ahead and attempt to pay with a credit card anyway. I guess one : has to reject such payments. : : I’ll be interested in seeing the other replies. I upgraded my account from Personal to Premier when someone paid me with a credit card after I said I couldn’t accept them. /me shrugs — —–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– Version: 3.1 GIT/MC/SS d– s–:+ a C++ !U P L++(+) E—- W+++(–) N+++ !o K- w+$ !O M– !V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP t 5 X– R* tv+ b++++ DI++++ D– G * h(+) r x+- ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——
Response:
My wife is a frequent shopper on eBay. She is severely disabled by MS, so writing a check or even leaving the house to get a money order or postal order is a huge (sometimes impossible) challenge. She has tried other payment systems (bidpay, etc…) but usually ends up calling me for help after giving up in frustration. If she wants an item badly enough, she will email the seller and BEG him to accept PayPal. I can’t speak for anyone else, but she has reached the point where the first thing she asks a seller is, "Do you accept PayPal?" If she likes your item and you don’t, she’ll start shopping elsewhere. Hope this helps.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m relatively new to selling stuff on Ebay and signed up for PayPal today because many buyers were asking for a payment method other than money/postal orders. The personal account looked great but then one buyer paid by CC and as someone here said, "the party was over". I don’t think it’s reasonable that they charge commission on non-CC payments. My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I suppose it would be too much to expect them to provide PayPal as a free service to Ebay users seeing as they already hit the sellers for listing fees and commissions? Well, yes, it would. First, when the system was established, it was in competition with eBay, not owned by eBay. Second, the service can be used for all sorts of non-eBay transactions, including payments for auction sites other than eBay. Might cause just a bit of antitrust problems if people using it to receive payments for eBay transactions didn’t get charged a fee, but people using it to receive payments for Yahoo transactions did get charged a fee. Third, the people willing to accept Paypal would have their fees supported by the people who weren’t. If you were an eBay user who only wanted to accept money orders, would you want your listing fees raised to support someone else’s paypal use? As it is, the people who use paypal, in any form, for business use pay for the benefit and support the service. Paypal defines business use as the ability to accept credit card payments. Free accounts are intended for people who buy with Paypal, although they are able to receive money as well as long as they don’t receive funds from a credit card. To me that seems like a reasonably fair arrangement. If eBay won’t offer BIN as a free service, which they did for years, or offer scheduling of auctions as a free service, I think it’s a flight of fancy to expect them to offer Paypal as a free service. After all, Paypal has significant costs associated with it’s operation, particularly with credit card use, while both of the other features I mentioned that eBay presently charge for for would cost eBay relatively little.
Richard, would you care to disclose any relationship you have with Ebay/PayPal? Whilst I see some logic in your reasoning, I don’t find myself sympathetic to it. Ebay could easily run a promotion with PayPal if they so wished. The fact that they don’t is evidence to me that they reckon it is more profitable for them not to. It’s up to people like me to ensure that it isn’t profitable by withdrawing support for these services. I see many people in this group who have done just that. Good for them! I’m next. What I specifically don’t like is the fact that although the PayPal private accounts cannot accept a CC payment, buyers are actively encouraged to use a CC when paying for an item, private account or not. They do this by 1) offering a CC payment option on the auction page and 2) entering CC users into a prize draw. The first thing the seller knows about it is when the auction is over and he has a CC payment in his/her account. This payment is effectively a ransom demand because failure to upgrade and allow it could scupper the auction. I, for one, feel coerced by this tactic.
Response:
My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome.
unless it was a one of a kind item and something I could not live without, I wouldn’t bid on a money order only auction. I prefer to pay by paypal, and if they don’t accept that, I would rather just write a check. For me it’s a pain to have to go to a store to buy a money order. You really should consider taking checks, I state on my auctions that checks are subject to a holding time, most buyers who pay by check expect this if you tell them upfront. Even so, I usually don’t hold a check for it to clear if the item isn’t too expensive and the buyer has over 50 feedback. (but I review them on a case by case basis and decided wether to wait before shipping, most of the times I don’t wait) In over 3 years I have only recieved 1 bad check. (and it was only for a piddly $5 item) And considering that the majority of my buyers use paypal, i can’t imagine not accepting it. I know personally if I am looking at 2 identical items and one seller takes paypal and the other doesn’t I am going to bid on the paypal one. Tricia
Response:
I’m relatively new to selling stuff on Ebay and signed up for PayPal today because many buyers were asking for a payment method other than money/postal orders. The personal account looked great but then one buyer paid by CC and as someone here said, "the party was over". I don’t think it’s reasonable that they charge commission on non-CC payments. My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome.
Response:
Depending on what you sell, you may wish to add personal checks as a payment option instead of Paypal. Personal checks are safe for collectables, fine art, books, etc. They are not safe for toys, electronics, games, and things of that nature. I have been accepting checks from classical record buyers for years and have never had a problem.
Response:
"Netherly" wrote I’m relatively new to selling stuff on Ebay and signed up for PayPal today because many buyers were asking for a payment method other than money/postal orders. The personal account looked great but then one buyer paid by CC and as someone here said, "the party was over". I don’t think it’s reasonable that they charge commission on non-CC payments. My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome.
Do you have enough sales history to make your own comparison? If so, you can easily tell if having PayPal significantly increased the numbers and/or amounts of your bids. Personally, I stopped taking PayPal precisely because of their policies. I don’t sell too often anymore, so for me it’s not a big deal. I do still use it for purchases.
Response:
The personal account looked great but then one buyer paid by CC and as someone here said, "the party was over". I don’t think it’s reasonable that they charge commission on non-CC payments.
Indeed it is unreasonable. My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome.
No PayPal deters me to some extent. No PayPal and no personal checks deters me entirely. I saw more than once auction terms clearly stating they "accept PayPal but not Credit Card via PayPal". I don’t know how they deal with buyers that go ahead and attempt to pay with a credit card anyway. I guess one has to reject such payments. I’ll be interested in seeing the other replies.
Response:
I’m relatively new to selling stuff on Ebay and signed up for PayPal today because many buyers were asking for a payment method other than money/postal orders. The personal account looked great but then one buyer paid by CC and as someone here said, "the party was over". I don’t think it’s reasonable that they charge commission on non-CC payments. My question is, should I stick with PayPal or should I go back to the money orders only? I sell 2 or 3 things weekly at values $20-$150. Does not having PP deter buyers? Do most people pay by PP using a CC? Any advice welcome.
I sent the following email to PayPal today. If others did the same there is a small chance they might change their practises: "I recently upgraded my personal account to a premium account in order to receive a credit card payment. I now find that *all* my received payment are subject to a fee, irrespective of whether they are credit card or not. This is unreasonable and I intend to stop using this service as soon as I can clear all pending transactions unless you change your policies. In my opinion you should NOT allow credit card payments to personal accounts if they can’t accept them. Also, for premium accounts you should NOT charge processing fees for transactions which are free for personal accounts. After some research I have found that many other people feel the same on this issue so I would urge you to consider what I have said. Thank you."
Response:
<snip I sent the following email to PayPal today. If others did the same there is a small chance they might change their practises:
<snip Of course if they stopped charging for all transactions on business accounts, they’d have to raise the fees on credit card transactions to bring the revenue stream back to where it is now. If they raise them too much, they stop being competitive with merchant accounts for all but the smallest users. Doesn’t really seem like your suggestion would be a particularly profitable business model for them to follow, does it? Paypal is in existence to make money. The fact that no other stable company has been able to provide a comparable service for any less money seems to support the idea that they aren’t grossly overcharging for the service they provide. Richard Ward
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I sent the following email to PayPal today. If others did the same there is a small chance they might change their practises: <snip Of course if they stopped charging for all transactions on business accounts, they’d have to raise the fees on credit card transactions to bring the revenue stream back to where it is now. If they raise them too much, they stop being competitive with merchant accounts for all but the smallest users. Doesn’t really seem like your suggestion would be a particularly profitable business model for them to follow, does it? Paypal is in existence to make money. The fact that no other stable company has been able to provide a comparable service for any less money seems to support the idea that they aren’t grossly overcharging for the service they provide.
I suppose it would be too much to expect them to provide PayPal as a free service to Ebay users seeing as they already hit the sellers for listing fees and commissions?
Response:
<snip I suppose it would be too much to expect them to provide PayPal as a free service to Ebay users seeing as they already hit the sellers for listing fees and commissions?
Well, yes, it would. First, when the system was established, it was in competition with eBay, not owned by eBay. Second, the service can be used for all sorts of non-eBay transactions, including payments for auction sites other than eBay. Might cause just a bit of antitrust problems if people using it to receive payments for eBay transactions didn’t get charged a fee, but people using it to receive payments for Yahoo transactions did get charged a fee. Third, the people willing to accept Paypal would have their fees supported by the people who weren’t. If you were an eBay user who only wanted to accept money orders, would you want your listing fees raised to support someone else’s paypal use? As it is, the people who use paypal, in any form, for business use pay for the benefit and support the service. Paypal defines business use as the ability to accept credit card payments. Free accounts are intended for people who buy with Paypal, although they are able to receive money as well as long as they don’t receive funds from a credit card. To me that seems like a reasonably fair arrangement. If eBay won’t offer BIN as a free service, which they did for years, or offer scheduling of auctions as a free service, I think it’s a flight of fancy to expect them to offer Paypal as a free service. After all, Paypal has significant costs associated with it’s operation, particularly with credit card use, while both of the other features I mentioned that eBay presently charge for for would cost eBay relatively little. Richard Ward
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