Question:
Then I believe the bank would be the victim. David
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh yes I’m sure this is true…..but if someone want to be a crook they will be long gone by then…. The bank account they opened would just be a temporary one….. heyday I seem to recall that when taking phone checks, the liability is on the depositor until funds have cleared. If the person who supposedly authorized the phone check says "I didn’t okay that" they are to have their account credited back and the depositor’s account is debited for that amount. I’ll see about looking it up if I get time later. David I really don’t want to give anyone ideas here but…. Yes I used to take checks all the time over the phone. All we had to put in the signature section was some wording like: "In accordance with Section Bla Bla Bla of the Bla Bla Bla code. I authorize payment on this check my telephone. No signature is needed" Its been a few years so I don’t remember exactly the wording. Of course this was all for my legitamate business and all transactions were really approved. I guess if a person wanted to be a crook they could do one big run of these phone checks….. and then take the money and run. Obviosly you would be caught if you tried to do it all the time……in fact I hope you would get caught the first time! The only reason I post this is to show how flawed the current checking system is……. heyday Um sorry….. not true….. All you need is a persons Name, Account Number, and routing number and you can print your own check and cash it. I ran a small business once where we took many "Check by phone" orders this way and it is perfectly legal. All the person has to do is give phone verification……. they don’t even need So basically every time you write a check…..ANYONE can get this information…… heyday Lemme try and apply to logic to this…… Here we go: Suppose what you wrote works. Now suppose I’m a crook and I want to steal other people’s money. I’m not the type who wants to rob people, shops or banks waiving a gun. So, I’m going for scams. With the information you just gave me (see above), I start picking up people’s garbage and rummage through it untill I find their name, account nr and routing nr. Or better still, I apply for a job at large bank’s mailroom. While I’m playing the inconspicuous mailboy, I collect a large number of names, account nrs and routing nrs. I then start up my computer printer and I will be able to get enought money to buy my own tropical island. And best thing is (that is if I follow your story here): it is perfectly legal!!! I can steal people’s monry and it is And how about this. I do lots of international business (not Ebay, other business, with payments up to several $million). Most invoices from companies I do business with actually mention their bankaccount nr and routing nr so that you can actually pay them. So all I have to do is order something from let’s say Exxon, wait for their invoice and I can suck their account dry? Now what do you think would happen if this worked in the real world? By the way, I don’t get your ‘check by phone’ story here. I read that you accepted unverified payment by phone somehow, not that anyone got access to your bankaccount by printing their own check. Can you please explain?
Response:
I believe you are wrong. The US Banking system has something called the ACH (Automated Clearing House). ACH transactions work just like checks but are paperless. Technically, they require pre-authorization to use, but anyone with access to the system and the information from the bottom of a check can pull money from just about any account held in a US Bank.
Logic again: then why isn’t that happening on a large scale? Or is it and are the banks so smart they can hide it from the world that they don’t actually have their accountholders money anymore? With that said, there are controls to keep that from happening. Larger businesses have restrictions on their accounts that prevent this from happening. Also, it’s difficult to obtain access to the ACH system.
Think about it . . . How many businesses offer "automatic debits" for your monthly bills? You send them a voided check and they start pulling money from your account. Some of them use ACH, others will actually print a check on your behalf. In place of the signature, there is a statement to the effect that this check was pre-approved by the account holder and the signature verification is available upon request. I’m sure there are other methods used within the banking system – however I’ve never had to provide any information that wasn’t already printed on my personal or business checks.
I’m paying my electrical bill and mortgage that way. The way the system is set up here (btw, I’m in Holland), whoever I authorise can pull money from my account, but if I don’t agree (like in case they make a mistake, or if I suspect fraud) I can order my bank to give me the money back immediately (I think I got 6 weeks or so to do that). The bank has to give me my money back. Wether they get it back from whoever took the money from my account is their problem. They only let accountholders they know and trust use this system. Btw, asking your money back actually works. A friend of mine is a social worker and he does it all the time for clients. In most cases, this concerns mailorders. People who are bankrupt order stuff from a mailordercompany and authorize a one-time ACH payment. However, their curator can (and will) reverse any purchase they make. Their signature is legally null and void, and since the names of bankrupt persons are published in the papers, it is the mailorder companies’ responsability to keep track of that. According to my friend, handling the phonecalls form the mailordercompany later is lots of fun!
Response:
I seem to recall that when taking phone checks, the liability is on the depositor until funds have cleared. If the person who supposedly authorized the phone check says "I didn’t okay that" they are to have their account credited back and the depositor’s account is debited for that amount. I’ll see about looking it up if I get time later. David
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I really don’t want to give anyone ideas here but…. Yes I used to take checks all the time over the phone. All we had to put in the signature section was some wording like: "In accordance with Section Bla Bla Bla of the Bla Bla Bla code. I authorize payment on this check my telephone. No signature is needed" Its been a few years so I don’t remember exactly the wording. Of course this was all for my legitamate business and all transactions were really approved. I guess if a person wanted to be a crook they could do one big run of these phone checks….. and then take the money and run. Obviosly you would be caught if you tried to do it all the time……in fact I hope you would get caught the first time! The only reason I post this is to show how flawed the current checking system is……. heyday Um sorry….. not true….. All you need is a persons Name, Account Number, and routing number and you can print your own check and cash it. I ran a small business once where we took many "Check by phone" orders this way and it is perfectly legal. All the person has to do is give phone verification……. they don’t even need So basically every time you write a check…..ANYONE can get this information…… heyday Lemme try and apply to logic to this…… Here we go: Suppose what you wrote works. Now suppose I’m a crook and I want to steal other people’s money. I’m not the type who wants to rob people, shops or banks waiving a gun. So, I’m going for scams. With the information you just gave me (see above), I start picking up people’s garbage and rummage through it untill I find their name, account nr and routing nr. Or better still, I apply for a job at large bank’s mailroom. While I’m playing the inconspicuous mailboy, I collect a large number of names, account nrs and routing nrs. I then start up my computer printer and I will be able to get enought money to buy my own tropical island. And best thing is (that is if I follow your story here): it is perfectly legal!!! I can steal people’s monry and it is And how about this. I do lots of international business (not Ebay, other business, with payments up to several $million). Most invoices from companies I do business with actually mention their bankaccount nr and routing nr so that you can actually pay them. So all I have to do is order something from let’s say Exxon, wait for their invoice and I can suck their account dry? Now what do you think would happen if this worked in the real world? By the way, I don’t get your ‘check by phone’ story here. I read that you accepted unverified payment by phone somehow, not that anyone got access to your bankaccount by printing their own check. Can you please explain?
Response:
Hello, I posted this in another thread, but I really like the service the MoneyGram company provides. (No I do not work for them…) Moneygrams cost more than a money order (around $10, depending on the amount sent), but you won
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