Question:
What about CNN who is profiting from the diaster?
Is CNN out collecting shuttle debris and selling it on eBay? The job of the press in a free society is to report the news, and since the press is not state-subsidized, in a free-market economy, they must make a profit in order to remain in business and continue to report the news. Personally, I am not a fan of CNN, but the press serves a vital role in a free society, the so-called ‘fourth estate’ that helps preserve the checks and balances that keeps us living in that free society by throwing light on what our government does, among other things. It seems you are not a student of democracy, or you would know that. Now, what does that cretin who tried to sell shuttle debris on eBay contribute to our society? What value does he return that we should accept his behavior? Like I said before, I am getting a bit tired of these ‘worse evil’ arguments in defense of this kind of human garbage. Yes, there are worse evils in the world than a guy selling shuttle debris on eBay. That in no way excuses his behavior, in my opinion. Under what circumstances would it? It is like saying, "Well, I robbed the 7-11, but I should be let go because at least I didn’t shoot anybody. And the local TV station broadcast the story and made a profit on it, so they’re worse than me." But if you think he’s a great guy, by all means, git in your pick-em-up truck, drive out to east Texas, find you a rusty old hunk of ‘56 Desoto frame, and sell it on eBay as gen-u-wine shuttle debris. Buy yourself some Lone Star beer with the proceeds and sit back in your trailer proclaiming yourself a True American for not being as evil as CNN, the War on Iraq, or President Bush. In America today, if you don’t measure up to that level of ‘evil’ I guess it makes you both innocent of any crime and heroic into the bargain. 10-4, good buddy. Bah! Bill Mattocks
Response:
What about CNN who is profiting from the diaster? Is CNN out collecting shuttle debris and selling it on eBay?
No. I thought your point was about people profiting from the diaster. If your problem is about people profiting from the diaster, CNN is one of many. Now, what does that cretin who tried to sell shuttle debris on eBay contribute to our society? What value does he return that we should accept his behavior?
Are you saying that if one does not contribute to society, one should not be part of it? Like I said before, I am getting a bit tired of these ‘worse evil’ arguments in defense of this kind of human garbage. Yes, there are worse evils in the world than a guy selling shuttle debris on eBay. That in no way excuses his behavior, in my opinion. Under what circumstances would it? It is like saying, "Well, I robbed the 7-11, but I should be let go because at least I didn’t shoot anybody. And the local TV station broadcast the story and made a profit on it, so they’re worse than me."
I never made that argument…. But if you think he’s a great guy, by all means, git in your pick-em-up truck, drive out to east Texas, find you a rusty old hunk of ‘56 Desoto frame, and sell it on eBay as gen-u-wine shuttle debris. Buy yourself some Lone Star beer with the proceeds and sit back in your trailer proclaiming yourself a True American for not being as evil as CNN, the War on Iraq, or President Bush. In America today, if you don’t measure up to that level of ‘evil’ I guess it makes you both innocent of any crime and heroic into the bargain. 10-4, good buddy.
I never said he was a great guy. To be honest, I am indifferent, it doesn’t bother me. dennis
Response:
i agree. what i objected to was your attempt to make it sound like the penultimate evil. it may be reprehensible, but it’s hardly the worst thing a human being can do.
First, ‘penultimate’ does not mean what you think it means. I think you meant to say ‘ultimate evil’. In any case, I never said, nor do I believe, that selling shuttle debris on eBay is the worst thing ever to happen. But it shocks me, offends me, and I said something about it. That’s all. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
My statement was simple – it is my opinion that a person who collects shuttle debris from the recent disaster and attempts to sell it on eBay is a sick individual, and the behavior is morally bankrupt. Nothing about Iraq, nothing about impending war, nothing about President Bush, just about a jerk selling shuttle debris.
Selling a heat shield tile? Well, if you turn it in it’s not going to bring them back, is it?
Response:
Selling a heat shield tile? Well, if you turn it in it’s not going to bring them back, is it?
Besides, something’s got to get the US economy back on it’s feet.
Response:
My statement was simple – it is my opinion that a person who collects shuttle debris from the recent disaster and attempts to sell it on eBay is a sick individual, and the behavior is morally bankrupt.
i agree. what i objected to was your attempt to make it sound like the penultimate evil. it may be reprehensible, but it’s hardly the worst thing a human being can do.
Response:
As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster. My comment was about those who would profit from the deaths of the astronauts by selling bits and pieces of the destroyed shuttle.
What about CNN who is profiting from the diaster?
Response:
Selling a heat shield tile? Well, if you turn it in it’s not going to bring them back, is it?
Nothing will bring them back. I guess that means we should not try to find out what happened and how we can prevent it in the future. In fact, let’s not do accident investigations of any kind, whether they are cars, trains, planes, or space shuttles. Let’s just say "Well, it won’t bring them back" and forget all about it. We can sell the debris from all kinds of accidents as scrap without doing any investigation whatsoever. Great idea! Would a heat shield tile provide the information necessary to figure out what went wrong? I don’t know. Neither do you. And definitely neither does the yobbo who felt it was more important for him to sell his find on eBay than to cooperate in the effort to find out what went wrong. I can’t believe anyone can defend behavior like that. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
To me, collecting and selling a piece of shuttle debris is evil in nature. to me, going to war without a congressional declaration of war as required by the US constitution, and without incontrovertible and public proof that the country you’re going to war against is in direct violation of a UN security council resolution is evil in nature.
To me, racial discrimination is evil in nature. Steve Hayes http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
Response:
As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster. The shuttle disaster will give the average man and soldier in Iraq an incredible boost of morale. The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala. These events will help them rally to the cause of defending their country, and will work imperceptibly against the morale of the US troops, who will see the shuttle destruction as an example that flaws could be present in their own military technology and command and control.
Again, this has nothing to do with a slime selling shuttle debris on eBay, or the morality thereof. What I don’t understand is why you and a few others seem dead set on converting every discussion into a US vs Iraq debate. I could have said it sure is nice weather out today and you’d have replied that it ain’t good weather for innocent Iraqi civilian about to be bombed in an unjust war, or that the US has no right to good weather while the rest of the world suffers. My statement was simple – it is my opinion that a person who collects shuttle debris from the recent disaster and attempts to sell it on eBay is a sick individual, and the behavior is morally bankrupt. Nothing about Iraq, nothing about impending war, nothing about President Bush, just about a jerk selling shuttle debris. However do you get from apples to oranges like that? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
<snip The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala.
<snipped Ala.? Who’s sending signs from Alabama?
Response:
and the soldiers in Iraq will STILL DIE. Morale has nothing to do with the ability to pound your opponent into submission (just ask the -former- talibumbles) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster. The shuttle disaster will give the average man and soldier in Iraq an incredible boost of morale. The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala. These events will help them rally to the cause of defending their country, and will work imperceptibly against the morale of the US troops, who will see the shuttle destruction as an example that flaws could be present in their own military technology and command and control.
Response:
As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster.
The shuttle disaster will give the average man and soldier in Iraq an incredible boost of morale. The fact that an Israeli airforce pilot who helped bomb their nuclear reactor 20 years ago was also killed on the shuttle will be seen as a sign from Ala. These events will help them rally to the cause of defending their country, and will work imperceptibly against the morale of the US troops, who will see the shuttle destruction as an example that flaws could be present in their own military technology and command and control.
Response:
I have to sign off now. I smashed up my rental car today, and I’m feeling a bit under the weather. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Sorry to hear about that…. If your pupils become or are dilated it’s time to go to the ER. jay Mon, Feb 3, 2003 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Response:
To me, collecting and selling a piece of shuttle debris is evil in nature.
to me, going to war without a congressional declaration of war as required by the US constitution, and without incontrovertible and public proof that the country you’re going to war against is in direct violation of a UN security council resolution is evil in nature.
Response:
to me, going to war without a congressional declaration of war as required by the US constitution, and without incontrovertible and public proof that the country you’re going to war against is in direct violation of a UN security council resolution is evil in nature.
Oh, well then, I guess that makes what this eBay creep did ok. I don’t know that I disagree with you, but what’s your point? That since there are ‘greater evils’ out there, we should not consider lesser evils to be wrong? As far as I can tell, the impending war with Iraq has nothing to do with the shuttle disaster. My comment was about those who would profit from the deaths of the astronauts by selling bits and pieces of the destroyed shuttle. Are you saying that we should ignore or even applaud this morally bankrupt behavior because you (and perhaps I) disagree with the actions of the President on an unrelated situation? It’s OK because the President is wrong to do what he is doing? Heck, why not let all the felons out of prison, since their wrong-doing pales in comparison? Or are you just injecting your own personal opinion about the current situation with Iraq into a non-related discussion in a strange non-sequitar? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft?
they always declare no-fly zone for the shuttle flight path a couple of hours before one lands. there was apparently one big chunk that fell on the runway of the nagadoches airport.
Response:
I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft? Not that I am aware of. On the other hand, some piece of human garbage has listed "Columbia Shuttle Debris" on eBay (Item #3205242574). eBay appears to be watching for this – the auction is cancelled already. May the S.O.B. rot in hell.
Who’s the greatest S.O.B.? The guy who tried to sell pieces of metal that fell in his yard, or the guy who fired the NASA engineers who wouldn’t give a "favorable" safety report? Bill, I usually agree with you on just about everything you post. I don’t in this case. After all this is America, the ultimate bastion of Capitalism, where everything including people’s lives has a price. Why should this be any different? You can’t call this guy a SOB for selling a lifeless piece of metal, and call another guy a hero for dropping a bomb on innocent civilians. – Manny.
Response:
Who’s the greatest S.O.B.? The guy who tried to sell pieces of metal that fell in his yard, or the guy who fired the NASA engineers who wouldn’t give a "favorable" safety report?
I think you can’t compare the one with the other. Each may be true (although I don’t know), but I know how I feel about someone trying to sell shuttle debris on eBay – it sickens me. Bill, I usually agree with you on just about everything you post. I don’t in this case. After all this is America, the ultimate bastion of Capitalism, where everything including people’s lives has a price. Why should this be any different? You can’t call this guy a SOB for selling a lifeless piece of metal, and call another guy a hero for dropping a bomb on innocent civilians.
Manny, I appreciate your opinion. But I can’t agree. America it is, and capitalism is not always pretty. But we are also a nation of morals, and I like to think that most of us are, at heart, good people. To me, collecting and selling a piece of shuttle debris is evil in nature. I could not look myself in the mirror in the morning if I ever did something like that. I don’t understand those who would buy such things, either. It’s sick, it’s depraved. I cannot speak to your comment about dropping bombs on innocent civilians. People who enter the military, whether drafted or volunteers, agree to execute the orders they are given to the best of their ability, which presumably would include dropping bombs – and it is probably a given that when dropping bombs from an aircraft, non-combatants (civilians) are going to be killed and injured in most circumstances. Although this world has put on trial those accused of ‘War Crimes’, and we tell our military personnel that they are not allowed to follow orders that are patently illegal on their face (‘go rape those civilian women’), dropping bombs on the territory of those our nation has declared to be enemies does not appear to be a war crime. I think I would have trouble doing it, but I am not sure that makes it wrong, other than the general prohibition against killing in most religions. One can play tit for tat with these things – but I’d prefer not to be drawn into such an argument. Without regard to what others do or did, I still think that selling souvenirs of a tragedy such as this is revolting. I have to sign off now. I smashed up my rental car today, and I’m feeling a bit under the weather. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
Interesting pictures in today’s NY Times. They show images from Shreveport Louisiana doppler radar from 12:04 to 1:33 pm, which I make to be between 3 and 3-1/2 hours after the breakup. There is a big red streak from WNW of Nacogdoches TX to roughly Alexan(dria?) Louisiana. That shows reflectivity near the ground. Took a heckofa long time to get down.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft? I would almost have to presume that if there were thousands of pieces of falling debris they would bound to interfere with flights in and out of DFW esp downrange towards the SE. Has there been any reports from commercial or private pilots?
Response:
I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft?
Not that I am aware of. On the other hand, some piece of human garbage has listed "Columbia Shuttle Debris" on eBay (Item #3205242574). eBay appears to be watching for this – the auction is cancelled already. May the S.O.B. rot in hell. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
Response:
Not that I am aware of. On the other hand, some piece of human garbage has listed "Columbia Shuttle Debris" on eBay (Item #3205242574). eBay appears to be watching for this – the auction is cancelled already. May the S.O.B. rot in hell.
See! I told you it would happen. You know, I don’t know what the point is of putting 12 traffic cones, 100 ft of police tape and 3 squad card around ever piece of debris. They’re gonna run out of cops pretty fast if they keep doing that. Just pick up the damn stuff. Why let it sit there, consuming law enforcement resources? What’s the point – they gonna do some kind of fancy analysis on-the-spot? I’ve even seen cops take pictures of the stuff. Why? Get it the hell into a hanger already. It’s not a freeking traffic accident mr. cop. You think you’re gonna reconstruct the accident from the piece you got there?
Response:
I am wondering, since I haven’t heard anything reported on the news, has anyone reported any of the STS falling debris striking any commercial aircraft? I would almost have to presume that if there were thousands of pieces of falling debris they would bound to interfere with flights in and out of DFW esp downrange towards the SE. Has there been any reports from commercial or private pilots?
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