Question:
I’ll just add one more voice to the clamor. . . I used to wait until receiving confirmation that the buyer was satisfied (or not) with an item before leaving feedback, under the view, expressed here, that the transaction isn’t really complete until both parties have received "the goods" and expressed satisfaction. Over time, I found that it was more of a hassle than it was worth. I never was having "issues" with my auctions, and I found it much more expedient to signal receipt of payment by leaving feedback rather than sendiong email (in my billing email now I say "I will leave positive feedback upon receipt of $ as acknowledgement of payment"). Well, this fall, after 200 – 300 successful transactions, I finally got a sourpuss. He wasn’t happy with an item and sent me a snotty, snide email suggesting I was a thief. I responded defensively, in a none-too-polite email, but also offered the guy a full refund, including all shipping costs and auction fees. He declined my offer and posted a negative feedback on me, citing a website he had set up to show what a rip-off artist I was. I checked out the site and found it diden’t exist. Just a shma to give the impressiion there was something to see. Well . . . this is why you might not want to leave feedback until the auction is *over* before leaving a positive. He paid okay . . . but I think his reponse to the item was unreasonable. As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. This is why it makes sense to many sellers not to leave feedback immediately after getting payment. Still, this experience is so unusual that it won’t make me change my habit of doing so. Comments? Albert
Response:
Well, here’s my take. If he wants to be a pain and not let you make him happy, then what’s to stop him from leaving a negative anyway? Of course, you can leave one on him if he does by waiting until after goods are received to leave feedback, but ultimately, you still can’t stop HIM from leaving one… I think these sorts of experiences are in the minority and I don’t plan to change my habit of leaving feedback upon payment unless they become common. Personally, I think trust begets trust and nice behavior tends to beget nice behavior. At least it has worked for me so far! Sorry you got a sourpuss! So, if he wasn’t happy with it, why the heck did he turn down the refund? Did he say or tell you what was wrong with your item? Cynthia
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, this fall, after 200 – 300 successful transactions, I finally got a sourpuss. He wasn’t happy with an item and sent me a snotty, snide email suggesting I was a thief. I responded defensively, in a none-too-polite email, but also offered the guy a full refund, including all shipping costs and auction fees. He declined my offer and posted a negative feedback on me, citing a website he had set up to show what a rip-off artist I was. I checked out the site and found it diden’t exist. Just a shma to give the impressiion there was something to see. Well . . . this is why you might not want to leave feedback until the auction is *over* before leaving a positive. He paid okay . . . but I think his reponse to the item was unreasonable. As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. This is why it makes sense to many sellers not to leave feedback immediately after getting payment. Still, this experience is so unusual that it won’t make me change my habit of doing so. Comments? Albert
Response:
Also, I ship immediately upon receipt of payment (I used to hold checks, and my auctions state I can at my descretion, but I usually don’t)so I like to wait until the check clears before I post feedback. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll just add one more voice to the clamor. . . I used to wait until receiving confirmation that the buyer was satisfied (or not) with an item before leaving feedback, under the view, expressed here, that the transaction isn’t really complete until both parties have received "the goods" and expressed satisfaction. Over time, I found that it was more of a hassle than it was worth. I never was having "issues" with my auctions, and I found it much more expedient to signal receipt of payment by leaving feedback rather than sendiong email (in my billing email now I say "I will leave positive feedback upon receipt of $ as acknowledgement of payment"). Well, this fall, after 200 – 300 successful transactions, I finally got a sourpuss. He wasn’t happy with an item and sent me a snotty, snide email suggesting I was a thief. I responded defensively, in a none-too-polite email, but also offered the guy a full refund, including all shipping costs and auction fees. He declined my offer and posted a negative feedback on me, citing a website he had set up to show what a rip-off artist I was. I checked out the site and found it diden’t exist. Just a shma to give the impressiion there was something to see. Well . . . this is why you might not want to leave feedback until the auction is *over* before leaving a positive. He paid okay . . . but I think his reponse to the item was unreasonable. As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. This is why it makes sense to many sellers not to leave feedback immediately after getting payment. Still, this experience is so unusual that it won’t make me change my habit of doing so. Comments? Albert
Response:
In my opinion, you don’t penalize hundreds of reasonable customers to "protect" yourself from one unreasonable customer. You’ve shown the odds yourself, a fraction of one percent. You also saw how little protection it really offered. I don’t think too many people are going to pay any attention to one negative out of hundreds of positives. I’ve never gotten a negative or neutral out of several hundred eBay transactions, but I know that statistically it’s just a matter of time. I’m not going to alter my behavior towards my hundreds of reasonable customers just to allow me the opportunity to leave a negative or neutral for the one person who eventually leaves me my first negative. One final comment and kind of off-topic, but if I understand you properly, they put a link to a another page in the negative feedback. This is against eBay’s rules. This is one of those few situations where eBay will actually remove feedback. It shouldn’t matter if the page actually exists or not, because they could always put a page up with that URL. See: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/fbremove.html I’d complain to safeharbor, and try to get the negative feedback removed. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll just add one more voice to the clamor. . . I used to wait until receiving confirmation that the buyer was satisfied (or not) with an item before leaving feedback, under the view, expressed here, that the transaction isn’t really complete until both parties have received "the goods" and expressed satisfaction. Over time, I found that it was more of a hassle than it was worth. I never was having "issues" with my auctions, and I found it much more expedient to signal receipt of payment by leaving feedback rather than sendiong email (in my billing email now I say "I will leave positive feedback upon receipt of $ as acknowledgement of payment"). Well, this fall, after 200 – 300 successful transactions, I finally got a sourpuss. He wasn’t happy with an item and sent me a snotty, snide email suggesting I was a thief. I responded defensively, in a none-too-polite email, but also offered the guy a full refund, including all shipping costs and auction fees. He declined my offer and posted a negative feedback on me, citing a website he had set up to show what a rip-off artist I was. I checked out the site and found it diden’t exist. Just a shma to give the impressiion there was something to see. Well . . . this is why you might not want to leave feedback until the auction is *over* before leaving a positive. He paid okay . . . but I think his reponse to the item was unreasonable. As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. This is why it makes sense to many sellers not to leave feedback immediately after getting payment. Still, this experience is so unusual that it won’t make me change my habit of doing so. Comments? Albert
Response:
This is why it makes sense to many sellers not to leave feedback immediately after getting payment. Still, this experience is so unusual that it won’t make me change my habit of doing so. Comments? If this happens to you again, will you change your feedback procedure?
Well, if I got a sense a pattern was emerging I might, but as RIchard or someone else pointed out, one bad feedback amid 230 positives, and perhaps 150+ more transactions that aren;t reflected there at all…that’s a pretty small problem to get me to change my ways. Looking at the whole process: image processing/item describing/auction posting/ corresponding/ feedbacking/ packaging/ shipping ….I’m happy not to have the two extra little steps to organize. (check clearing / buyer acknowledging) albert
Response:
I think people leave negative feedback when they’re feeling angry, which is why you see the all caps "BEWARE….", etc. That doesn’t tell me anything about what went wrong, I would much rather see the specifics. Did the seller not ship or ship late? Was the merchandise not as described? I’ve never left negative feedback for a seller, the one time I got burned, they were NARU’d before I could leave feedback. When I leave negative feedback for a buyer, I usually say something like "Never paid for item and didn’t respond to my emails". Rhonda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m just wondering what others think, when they see the "liar and a thief" comments left by some people? Kris
Response:
We’ve just replaced Kimberly Cupps’s post to alt.marketing.online.ebay with new Folger’s Crystals. Let’s see if anyone notices: My strangest ones were: Praise: hooray for the bloody red baron! 
thanks. Praise: Transaction: smooth & easy. Kraft Macaroni: rich & creamy. You make the call.
Hey, who stole my idea! Okay he changed my Skippy peanut butter to Kraft Macaroni, but still… The other night, I was lying in bed looking up at the stars, and I wondered
Response:
……. He cashed the check and kept the CB plus gave me negative feedback. He kept e-mailing me saying that I needed to buy him a new GE CB for his wasted time. I finally blacklisted him from my auctions and blocked him from my e-mail. What a moron. Kimberly
Holy cow! What a hilarious dark chain of events! Sheesh. albert
Response:
……. He cashed the check and kept the CB plus gave me negative feedback. He kept e-mailing me saying that I needed to buy him a new GE CB for his wasted time. I finally blacklisted him from my auctions and blocked him from my e-mail. What a moron. Kimberly Holy cow! What a hilarious dark chain of events! Sheesh.
It was bad because it was only about my 4th item to ever sell on an auction site. It made me want to hide under a rock. I was still pretty much a newbie to the internet and the auction thing. Now in the past 2 years I’ve encountered a large variety of nuts so it’s not so bad when I do run across other ones.<g Kimberly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – albert
Response:
If he didn’t want a refund, what DID he want? Nothing that he ever expressed. He didn’t make any request or suggestion for a settlement. It was a quite inexpensive item — an old 16mm cartoon whose condition he felt I misrepresented in my ad, to put it simply. I suppose that although he was annoyed by the condition, he still wanted the item enough to keep it. Id’ve given him a substantial rebate if he asked for it.
You can’t please them all. I had a bidder on Yahoo like that I sold him a Radio Shack CB and he stated that I misrepresented the item saying that it ran off batteries. He claims that I sent him a GE brand CB instead. ?? That didn’t make sense because I’ve only had the one Radio Shack brand one. I offered a refund and made the mistake of sending it to him before he returned the CB. He cashed the check and kept the CB plus gave me negative feedback. He kept e-mailing me saying that I needed to buy him a new GE CB for his wasted time. I finally blacklisted him from my auctions and blocked him from my e-mail. What a moron. Kimberly
Response:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/fbremove.html I’d complain to safeharbor, and try to get the negative feedback removed. Richard Ward
Ah! Thanks very much for the tip! albert
Response:
Also, I ship immediately upon receipt of payment (I used to hold checks, and my auctions state I can at my descretion, but I usually don’t)so I like to wait until the check clears before I post feedback.
Ditto — I’ve yet to have a problem with a single check. It’s not worth the logistical hassle of keeping track of clearances to guard against the occasional check bouncer. This, though, I would think depends a great deal on the kind of merchandise you are selling and the nature of your clientele. albert
Response:
I once got a positive that read something like "ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT". I looked at the feedback he had left, and he did something similar for all the positives he left. I’m sure he meant something positive by it, but I’ve never figured out exactly what.
His + key was broken, but he figured a T was close enough. GK
Response:
I once got a positive that read something like "ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT". I looked at the feedback he had left, and he did something similar for all the positives he left. I’m sure he meant something positive by it, but I’ve never figured out exactly what. Ricard Ward
Yaya, I know that guy…. can’t find the "+" key….. Maybe he’s a teacher…. All the flunking students get A’s. The average students get A+’s; the above average students get A++++; and the really good students get don’t threaten him/her for flunking their kid. — Don Member #69173 at large: Lumber Cartel; Marshmallow Stick Division. (tinMSD; tinLC) "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
Response:
I say it’s no wonder he broke his + key! <G Cynthia
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I once got a positive that read something like "ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT". I looked at the feedback he had left, and he did something similar for all the positives he left. I’m sure he meant something positive by it, but I’ve never figured out exactly what. His + key was broken, but he figured a T was close enough. GK
Response:
If he didn’t want a refund, what DID he want?
Nothing that he ever expressed. He didn’t make any request or suggestion for a settlement. It was a quite inexpensive item — an old 16mm cartoon whose condition he felt I misrepresented in my ad, to put it simply. I suppose that although he was annoyed by the condition, he still wanted the item enough to keep it. Id’ve given him a substantial rebate if he asked for it. As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. Albert Knock on wood, I’ve never had a negative. But even if I have to deal with a situation like yours, I’d NEVER leave feedback implying someone was "a jerk." I’m sure that your neutral feedback comments implied it, but didn’t use that phrase – right?
Well, yes. I wrote something like: "$ okay, but needlessly combative – my first truly unfriendly ebayer." I’ve seen some eBay sellers leave weird feedback — 99% of them say things like "God bless this wonderful customer" but then they’ll neg someone and say "A liar and a thief." Those "liar and a thief" comments say more about the person who left the feedback…..
I agree. I tried to make my feedback level-headed. Ranting inspires confidence in no-one. albert
Response:
I once got a positive that read something like "ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT". I looked at the feedback he had left, and he did something similar for all the positives he left. I’m sure he meant something positive by it, but I’ve never figured out exactly what.
My strangest ones were: Praise: hooray for the bloody red baron! thanks. and Praise: Transaction: smooth & easy. Kraft Macaroni: rich & creamy. You make the call. Kimberly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ricard Ward <snip I’ve seen some eBay sellers leave weird feedback — 99% of them say things like "God bless this wonderful customer" but then they’ll neg someone and say "A liar and a thief." Those "liar and a thief" comments say more about the person who left the feedback, than the person the feedback was aimed at. I’m not implying that you did that, Albert — not at all. I’m just wondering what others think, when they see the "liar and a thief" comments left by some people? Kris Ha, here’s the strangest feedback I’ve gotten so far, Kris: "Praise: I have been away on business and just returned, my girlfriend shipped your item" Feedback forum as bulletin board, answering machine or something I suppose. But doesn’t it speak for the nature of the seller? Maybe his girlfriend was rushing him & messing with his mind, I dunno. <g — Rod Justice – When you get what you deserve. Mercy – When you don’t get what you deserve. Grace – When you get what you don’t deserve
Response:
In my opinion, you don’t penalize hundreds of reasonable customers to "protect" yourself from one unreasonable customer. You’ve shown the
Yeah, you do. Go to the store and use your credit card; its "may I see your drivers license". Why? Because 1 % or less of customers are crooks. Same anywhere. One "mad Bomber" type can do a lot of damage so the post office "penalised" all of us. Now we cant put packages in the stree boxes. And how many letter bombs were ever mailed? 20? 30? Its very common to inconvienience the vast majority because of a very very few. odds yourself, a fraction of one percent. You also saw how little protection it really offered. I don’t think too many people are going
With over 600 pos., I’ve had bidders point out all the negs I have (6). They use it as leverage and some dummies dont realise that its often left by hotheads. To reward such behavior with a pos fb is lunacy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -to pay any attention to one negative out of hundreds of positives. I’ve never gotten a negative or neutral out of several hundred eBay transactions, but I know that statistically it’s just a matter of time. I’m not going to alter my behavior towards my hundreds of reasonable customers just to allow me the opportunity to leave a negative or neutral for the one person who eventually leaves me my first negative. One final comment and kind of off-topic, but if I understand you properly, they put a link to a another page in the negative feedback. This is against eBay’s rules. This is one of those few situations where eBay will actually remove feedback. It shouldn’t matter if the page actually exists or not, because they could always put a page up with that URL. See: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/fbremove.html I’d complain to safeharbor, and try to get the negative feedback removed. Richard Ward I’ll just add one more voice to the clamor. . . I used to wait until receiving confirmation that the buyer was satisfied (or not) with an item before leaving feedback, under the view, expressed here, that the transaction isn’t really complete until both parties have received "the goods" and expressed satisfaction. Over time, I found that it was more of a hassle than it was worth. I never was having "issues" with my auctions, and I found it much more expedient to signal receipt of payment by leaving feedback rather than sendiong email (in my billing email now I say "I will leave positive feedback upon receipt of $ as acknowledgement of payment"). Well, this fall, after 200 – 300 successful transactions, I finally got a sourpuss. He wasn’t happy with an item and sent me a snotty, snide email suggesting I was a thief. I responded defensively, in a none-too-polite email, but also offered the guy a full refund, including all shipping costs and auction fees. He declined my offer and posted a negative feedback on me, citing a website he had set up to show what a rip-off artist I was. I checked out the site and found it diden’t exist. Just a shma to give the impressiion there was something to see. Well . . . this is why you might not want to leave feedback until the auction is *over* before leaving a positive. He paid okay . . . but I think his reponse to the item was unreasonable. As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. This is why it makes sense to many sellers not to leave feedback immediately after getting payment. Still, this experience is so unusual that it won’t make me change my habit of doing so. Comments? Albert
Response:
I once got a positive that read something like "ATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT". I looked at the feedback he had left, and he did something similar for all the positives he left. I’m sure he meant something positive by it, but I’ve never figured out exactly what. Ricard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I’ve seen some eBay sellers leave weird feedback — 99% of them say things like "God bless this wonderful customer" but then they’ll neg someone and say "A liar and a thief." Those "liar and a thief" comments say more about the person who left the feedback, than the person the feedback was aimed at. I’m not implying that you did that, Albert — not at all. I’m just wondering what others think, when they see the "liar and a thief" comments left by some people? Kris Ha, here’s the strangest feedback I’ve gotten so far, Kris: "Praise: I have been away on business and just returned, my girlfriend shipped your item" Feedback forum as bulletin board, answering machine or something I suppose. But doesn’t it speak for the nature of the seller? Maybe his girlfriend was rushing him & messing with his mind, I dunno. <g — Rod Justice – When you get what you deserve. Mercy – When you don’t get what you deserve. Grace – When you get what you don’t deserve
Response:
When I have to leave a neg for nonpayment, I generally just state the facts, "no contact, no payment after XX days", or something similar. I think this is more effective than something that just insults the person you’re leaving it about, and it also leaves you sounding professional and reasonable. Richard Ward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I’m just wondering what others think, when they see the "liar and a thief" comments left by some people? Kris
Response:
<snip I’ve seen some eBay sellers leave weird feedback — 99% of them say things like "God bless this wonderful customer" but then they’ll neg someone and say "A liar and a thief." Those "liar and a thief" comments say more about the person who left the feedback, than the person the feedback was aimed at. I’m not implying that you did that, Albert — not at all. I’m just wondering what others think, when they see the "liar and a thief" comments left by some people? Kris
Ha, here’s the strangest feedback I’ve gotten so far, Kris: "Praise: I have been away on business and just returned, my girlfriend shipped your item" Feedback forum as bulletin board, answering machine or something I suppose. But doesn’t it speak for the nature of the seller? Maybe his girlfriend was rushing him & messing with his mind, I dunno. <g — Rod Justice – When you get what you deserve. Mercy – When you don’t get what you deserve. Grace – When you get what you don’t deserve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ll just add one more voice to the clamor. . . I used to wait until receiving confirmation that the buyer was satisfied (or not) with an item before leaving feedback, under the view, expressed here, that the transaction isn’t really complete until both parties have received "the goods" and expressed satisfaction. Over time, I found that it was more of a hassle than it was worth. I never was having "issues" with my auctions, and I found it much more expedient to signal receipt of payment by leaving feedback rather than sendiong email (in my billing email now I say "I will leave positive feedback upon receipt of $ as acknowledgement of payment"). Well, this fall, after 200 – 300 successful transactions, I finally got a sourpuss. He wasn’t happy with an item and sent me a snotty, snide email suggesting I was a thief. I responded defensively, in a none-too-polite email, but also offered the guy a full refund, including all shipping costs and auction fees. He declined my offer and posted a negative feedback on me, citing a website he had set up to show what a rip-off artist I was. I checked out the site and found it diden’t exist. Just a shma to give the impressiion there was something to see. Well . . . this is why you might not want to leave feedback until the auction is *over* before leaving a positive. He paid okay . . . but I think his reponse to the item was unreasonable. As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. This is why it makes sense to many sellers not to leave feedback immediately after getting payment. Still, this experience is so unusual that it won’t make me change my habit of doing so. Comments? Albert
I couldnt have said it better. I do the same thing you do; I’ll give ya good fb if you indicate for all the world to see that you are satisfied. If you dont, no hard feelings but no fb either. And if a buyer tells me, "I’ll give you pos fb if you do first" I interpret it as trying to "buy" fb and leave none. I know there are lots of FB collectors out there who dearly want their numbers to go up but the situation you describe above shows its better to be a bit prudent as neg fbs can hurt sales and undeserved nfb looks just about the same as desreved nfb. And NPBs ALWAYS get negged!
Response:
I responded defensively, in a none-too-polite email, but also offered the guy a full refund, including all shipping costs and auction fees. He declined my offer and posted a negative feedback on me, citing a website he had set up to show what a rip-off artist I was.
If he didn’t want a refund, what DID he want? By any chance, was this a very small sale — to someone with ulterior motives? As it happened, I had gotten behind on my process and *hadn’t* left feedback yet. I left him a neutral — acknowledging that I had rec’d the $ but that the guy was a jerk, basically. I thought about negging him — but I didn’t think that was right since I did have the $. Albert
Knock on wood, I’ve never had a negative. But even if I have to deal with a situation like yours, I’d NEVER leave feedback implying someone was "a jerk." I’m sure that your neutral feedback comments implied it, but didn’t use that phrase – right? I’ve seen some eBay sellers leave weird feedback — 99% of them say things like "God bless this wonderful customer" but then they’ll neg someone and say "A liar and a thief." Those "liar and a thief" comments say more about the person who left the feedback, than the person the feedback was aimed at. I’m not implying that you did that, Albert — not at all. I’m just wondering what others think, when they see the "liar and a thief" comments left by some people? Kris
Response:
I’m just wondering what others think, when they see the "liar and a thief" comments left by some people? Kris
I’m thinking they would not begin to do that face to face. Not that this applies to this incident, but the internet, where you never have to talk to people in person, brings out the worst in people – calling names, off-color language, etc. things they would be deathly afraid to do in person. Newsgroups is where you see this the most. I suspect that a lot of these are folks who use the internet to be "big brave guys" – something they are not in person. John
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