Question:
<Ahem Allow me to explain how one gets *really* creamy bokeh with any lens. 1. Use the magnetic selection tool to outline your subject. 2. Invert your selection so that the background is selected. 3. Select a Gaussian blur that you like in the Filters menu. 4. Save your image and print it out. It’s as simple as that!
I think it’s time you went back to the computer industry. Your talents seem to be wasted in photography. — Best regards, Anthony Polson
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The only one I could suggest is 50/2 AI Absolutely beautiful People overlook this lens cause it’s not high speed and it’s too cheap to be considered seriously. — Kardum http://www.kardum.com/ I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
– Kardum http://www.kardum.com/
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<Ahem Allow me to explain how one gets *really* creamy bokeh with any lens. 1. Use the magnetic selection tool to outline your subject. 2. Invert your selection so that the background is selected. 3. Select a Gaussian blur that you like in the Filters menu. 4. Save your image and print it out. It’s as simple as that!
Not quite. Real (creamy) bokeh ("real" meaning that produced by a lens and not added by a digi effect through post processing in a computer) goes out of focus _gradually_ away from (in front of and in back of the plane of focus) whist still retaining subject detail – digital manipulation at best produces a gross (in the sense of large and in the sense of bad aestheticallly when compared to a real lens) _global_ effect. Perhaps there are programs to calculate/make circles of confusion get larger the further away they are from the in focus subject plane but then how would the computer know what’s behind/in front of what – the computer program would probably have to calculate some realistic (though exagerrated) progression of the non-in focus circles of confusion getting larger… Slapping on a filter (or even a lens), whether it be real or digital is no substitute for the real thing. Plus, why go to the trouble even if you were able to accomplish something pleasing electronically w/ bokeh when you can achieve it by simply buying the right lens and having all your shots come out that way, unless you like the extra work… Regards, Lewis I’ve set (anti-spam) controls to allow in only people on my list. If you want to be on my list contact me through the newsgroup. I regret the inconvenience. Thanks. Check out my photos at "LEWISVISION": http://members.aol.com/Lewisvisn/home.htm
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Hi Tony: The only place I disagree with you here is on the 85mm/1.4 AIS. I find this lens has very pronounced sharp edges on background defocussed highlights, which most people would call bad bokeh.
Brian, As with so many of your opinions, this one must surely fly in the face of the views of the vast majority of photographers who use this lens. Sales of this heavy, expensive and somewhat intimidating lens have always been higher than Nikon could reasonably have expected. Indeed, it was the ongoing very high demand for the AIS version that caused Nikon to introduce the recent AF-D version which, although only slightly changed, is better than the AIS version. I have tried several samples of both, including buying one AIS version on eBay and returning it to the USA for a refund. Our testing program included no less than *five* examples of this lens, 2 of which were AIS and the others AF-D. They were all very fine performers. The bokeh did not differ between the AIS and AF-D versions, but the contrast of the AF-D was slightly higher, giving greater apparent sharpness. I don’t use this lens because it is, in my opinion, far too sharp for portraiture. It resolves every line and wrinkle, and needs a far more powerful soft focus filter than I am prepared to use. I much prefer the 85mm f/1.8 AF(-D). To come back to the bokeh, I restate that this is one of Nikon’s very best lenses for all-round performance *including* bokeh. You will not find many people disagreeing who have used this lens for serious work. Maybe you got a bad sample. Whatever, this is yet another entry in the catalog of lenses where your opinions are diametrically opposite to those of the bulk of their users. You must be an extremely unfortunate person to have had consistently so very much bad luck. — Best regards, Anthony Polson
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I routinely use Nikon and Contax and I find both to be great systems. If by "bokeh" you are referring to a smooth transition between the focus plane and out of focus ones, then you should try Zeiss lenses. I love both systems, but I have yet to find a single Nikon lens with good "bokeh", or at least which compares to the Zeiss’ equivalent.
Then you clearly know nothing about the following Nikkors: 35mm f/1.4 AIS 45mm f/2.8 AI-P 85mm f/1.8 AF/AF-D 85mm f/1.4 AIS/AF-D 105mm f/2.5 AIS (outstanding) 105mm f/2 DC AF-D 135mm f/2 DC AF-D 180mm f/2.8 ED AIS/AF/AF-D All have fine bokeh. The 105mm f/2.5 AIS will blow away most other portrait lenses. — Best regards, Anthony Polson
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35mm f/1.4 AIS 45mm f/2.8 AI-P 85mm f/1.8 AF/AF-D 85mm f/1.4 AIS/AF-D 105mm f/2.5 AIS (outstanding) 105mm f/2 DC AF-D 135mm f/2 DC AF-D 180mm f/2.8 ED AIS/AF/AF-D All have fine bokeh. The 105mm f/2.5 AIS will blow away most other portrait lenses.
How is the 35/1.4 AIS in particular? I’m looking at this lens for available light shots at events where I don’t want to bring a flash and heavy zoom. I know that Leica is king in this niche, but the rest of my kit is Nikon…. Thanks, Patrick S P Engineering, Inc. | The experts in large scale distributed OO | systems design and implementation.
Response:
<Ahem Allow me to explain how one gets *really* creamy bokeh with any lens. 1. Use the magnetic selection tool to outline your subject. 2. Invert your selection so that the background is selected. 3. Select a Gaussian blur that you like in the Filters menu. 4. Save your image and print it out. It’s as simple as that! — Don’t blink! – Remove nospam to mail me.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 180mm f/2.8 ED-IF is outstanding. Look at the number of aperture blades of lenses. The fewer there are, the less the likelihood of good bokeh. If only it were that simple. — Best regards, Anthony Polson
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I routinely use Nikon and Contax and I find both to be great systems. If by "bokeh" you are referring to a smooth transition between the focus plane and out of focus ones, then you should try Zeiss lenses. I love both systems, but I have yet to find a single Nikon lens with good "bokeh", or at least which compares to the Zeiss’ equivalent. Then you clearly know nothing about the following Nikkors: 35mm f/1.4 AIS 45mm f/2.8 AI-P 85mm f/1.8 AF/AF-D 85mm f/1.4 AIS/AF-D 105mm f/2.5 AIS (outstanding) 105mm f/2 DC AF-D 135mm f/2 DC AF-D 180mm f/2.8 ED AIS/AF/AF-D All have fine bokeh. The 105mm f/2.5 AIS will blow away most other portrait lenses.
Antony, please don’t tilt at windmills. I am sure you can do better than this. Roberto
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see http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/bokeh.html on favored nikkors, also nikon mailing list archives I have a number of 105mm f/2.5 variants, a great design for portraits; nearly everybody likes this lens for its bokeh too 
on the wide angles, I find contrast and edge resolution a bigger issue, and find the flare resistance of some of the nikkor wides like the 20mm f/3.5 (52mm) and 24mm f/2.8 CRC amazing against other very wide lenses. they are also so small and compact that you can carry easily (I put two lens rear caps together with epoxy back to back, keeps ‘em handy in smaller camera cases under other lenses… enjoy! bobm — * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Southern Methodist University, Dallas Tx 75275 * * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/third/index.html * * Medium Format Cameras: http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/index.html *
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SNIP The 24mm f/2.8 AF is a superb optic but given the short focal length and not-so-wide maximum aperture, bokeh is not really an issue.
SNIP Hi Tony: I have to respectfully disagree w/ you here. Although most people stop down 24mm lenses way down (especially for landscapes) I like to use them for people, wide open, sometimes focused at a 1/2 meter or less to get both the person and alarge portion of the background environment in the shot. I realise that outside of some PJ’s and/or people like me who just like to pop the subject from the background through selective focus w/ wide angle lenses requiring good bokeh is not important in a 24mm used wide open but for me and my style of shooting it is. I would really be curious as to what others experiences w/ this lens wide open are for bokeh – stopped down to about f/11 this lens is so sharp and contrasty it makes Leica’s 24mm R lens pale in comparison (at least from my experience years ago with the "abused" 24mm R lens of a friend’s 24mm that was mis-cleaned, in all fairness to its decidedly mediocre sharpness performance…) Regards, Lewis I’ve set (anti-spam) controls to allow in only people on my list. If you want to be on my list contact me through the newsgroup. I regret the inconvenience. Thanks. Check out my photos at "LEWISVISION": http://members.aol.com/Lewisvisn/home.htm
Response:
I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
Hi Robert, It all depends on whether you will accept recommendations for AF Nikkors, MF (AIS) Nikkors or a mixture of both. First the wide angle lens. Bokeh is not so critical with wide angles as they offer too much depth of field even wide open. Possibly the one exception in the Nikkor range is the 35mm f/1.4 AIS which has good bokeh. The 24mm f/2.8 AF is a superb optic but given the short focal length and not-so-wide maximum aperture, bokeh is not really an issue. There are no current 50mm Nikkors with good bokeh. You might like to take a look at the new 45mm f/2.8 AI-P which is a highly optimised Tessar design, and is reputed to have excellent bokeh. I can’t confirm that, never having used one. The 85mm f/1.8 AF has very good bokeh. This is my favourite lens of all and I always carry it with me on assignment. It’s a good portrait lens. The 85mm f/1.4 (AIS or AF) is a super performer with excellent bokeh, but it is just a little too sharp for me. It’s also heavy. The 105mm f/2.5 AIS is a *sublime portrait lens with sublime bokeh*. I think very highly of this lens, especially as it’s still in Nikon’s catalog and can be purchased for a very reasonable price. Then there are the 105mm and 135mm f/2 DC AF lenses. I have the 135mm and love it. The variable bokeh feature is sensational, but even at its best the lens is not superior to the 105mm f/2.5 AIS. The bokeh may be variable, but it never surpasses that of the 105mm AIS version IMO. I also have the 180mm f/2.8 AF-N which is a very fine optic with superb bokeh. It’s difficult to choose one favourite but mine would probably be the 75-150mm f/3.5 (constant) Nikon Series E lens. It has the best bokeh of any of the lenses I mentioned above, plus it’s a zoom! This is a very fine performer. It’s so good that the ‘Series E’ tag is irrelevant. These are very personal opinions, so don’t rely on them 100% to inform your buying decisions. Instead, try before you buy. Good luck! [I wish someone would post something similar for Canon EF lenses!] — Best regards, Anthony Polson
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Don’t be scared, Anthony… ask the question! Start a thread for a change…. — – Sir McSalty of Cruet, Dreaded Knight of Ni(kon)
Response:
I have to respectfully disagree w/ you here.
<snip No problem. I’ll be hoping to learn from any responses. — Best regards, Anthony Polson
Response:
The 180mm f/2.8 ED-IF is outstanding. Look at the number of aperture blades of lenses. The fewer there are, the less the likelihood of good bokeh. — Don’t blink! – Remove nospam to mail me.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
Response:
The 180mm f/2.8 ED-IF is outstanding.
Yes, nice glass. Look at the number of aperture blades of lenses. The fewer there are, the less the likelihood of good bokeh.
Where did you read that? Ciao! Gordon Moat Alliance Graphique Studio <http://www.allgstudio.com
Response:
I routinely use Nikon and Contax and I find both to be great systems. If by "bokeh" you are referring to a smooth transition between the focus plane and out of focus ones, then you should try Zeiss lenses. I love both systems, but I have yet to find a single Nikon lens with good "bokeh", or at least which compares to the Zeiss’ equivalent. Roberto
Response:
Look at the number of aperture blades of lenses. The fewer there are, the less the likelihood of good bokeh.
Hasn’t that one been conclusively disproven? Pat — Photos at: http://www.shuttercity.com/ShowGallery.cfm?Format=Cell&AcctID=1251
Response:
The 180mm f/2.8 ED-IF is outstanding. Look at the number of aperture blades of lenses. The fewer there are, the less the likelihood of good bokeh.
If only it were that simple. — Best regards, Anthony Polson
Response:
Have you used the Nikkor 180mm ED? — Don’t blink! – Remove nospam to mail me.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I routinely use Nikon and Contax and I find both to be great systems. If by "bokeh" you are referring to a smooth transition between the focus plane and out of focus ones, then you should try Zeiss lenses. I love both systems, but I have yet to find a single Nikon lens with good "bokeh", or at least which compares to the Zeiss’ equivalent. Roberto
Response:
Hi Tony: The only place I disagree with you here is on the 85mm/1.4 AIS. I find this lens has very pronounced sharp edges on background defocussed highlights, which most people would call bad bokeh. Also, although I agree with you about the 50’s, the 58mm Noct is quite good with respect to bokeh IMHO, and I use it quite alot to get smooth blurred backgrounds. Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First the wide angle lens. Bokeh is not so critical with wide angles as they offer too much depth of field even wide open. Possibly the one exception in the Nikkor range is the 35mm f/1.4 AIS which has good bokeh. The 24mm f/2.8 AF is a superb optic but given the short focal length and not-so-wide maximum aperture, bokeh is not really an issue. There are no current 50mm Nikkors with good bokeh. You might like to take a look at the new 45mm f/2.8 AI-P which is a highly optimised Tessar design, and is reputed to have excellent bokeh. I can’t confirm that, never having used one. The 85mm f/1.8 AF has very good bokeh. This is my favourite lens of all and I always carry it with me on assignment. It’s a good portrait lens. The 85mm f/1.4 (AIS or AF) is a super performer with excellent bokeh, but it is just a little too sharp for me. It’s also heavy. The 105mm f/2.5 AIS is a *sublime portrait lens with sublime bokeh*. I think very highly of this lens, especially as it’s still in Nikon’s catalog and can be purchased for a very reasonable price. Then there are the 105mm and 135mm f/2 DC AF lenses. I have the 135mm and love it. The variable bokeh feature is sensational, but even at its best the lens is not superior to the 105mm f/2.5 AIS. The bokeh may be variable, but it never surpasses that of the 105mm AIS version IMO. I also have the 180mm f/2.8 AF-N which is a very fine optic with superb bokeh. It’s difficult to choose one favourite but mine would probably be the 75-150mm f/3.5 (constant) Nikon Series E lens. It has the best bokeh of any of the lenses I mentioned above, plus it’s a zoom! This is a very fine performer. It’s so good that the ‘Series E’ tag is irrelevant. These are very personal opinions, so don’t rely on them 100% to inform your buying decisions. Instead, try before you buy. Good luck! [I wish someone would post something similar for Canon EF lenses!]
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You did not mention which 50 mm. I have used a few of the 50s, and my personal favourite is the f1.4 AIS. You should be able to find a good one used for very low cost. I have used the 85 f2.0 AIS, and found the results to my liking. I still like the 105 f2.5 AIS better for portraits. Not sure on the 24 mm. I have yet to find one of the wides that I really like more than the others. The choices in the older 20, 24, and 28 are fairly good. I prefer to pick one that can be set to f22, since that suits my shots more than wide open with these lenses. Try looking through a couple different ones, or ideally rent a few. What do you want to shoot wide? Also, what body are you using? If you can use the older AI and AIS lenses, there are many excellent used choices for primes. Ciao! Gordon Moat Alliance Graphique Studio <http://www.allgstudio.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
Response:
For 50mm lenses, I prefer the f/1.8 over the f/1.4. I use my 85mm f/1.8 and 105mm f/2.5 lenses a LOT. Bob Fowler
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
Response:
Take a look at a used 135mm with DC. It’s probably one of the best primes I have and with great bokeh. I bought a "like new" 135 a few months back and saved literally hundreds off the cost of a new one. Great for portraits.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
Response:
I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
The only Nikkors I’m familiar with are the early ones, from the 1950s and ’60s. Many of these lenses, notably the 50, 85, 105 and 135mm, derive from classic Zeiss designs and give an out-of-focus look consistent with this. I wouldn’t say the bokeh is creamy. It’s not harsh either but it is edgier than you’ll get with the most bokeh-friendly Pentax or Leitz lenses. I have a Nikon F outfit-24 f/2.8, 50 f/1.4, 105 f/2.5 and 200 f/4-that I use exclusively with fast b&w film. (Usually Ilford HP5+ developed in Agfa Rodinal.) For this use the OOF quality of the Nikkors is just the thing. -Dave-
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Here’s a shot I took with my Nikkor 24mm F2.8D Not much help, but better than nothing…. http://www.barabek.com/photos/24mm.jpg
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the works of purchasing a nikon set. the primes I was planning to pick up was the 24mm 2.8, 50mm, and the 85mm 1.8. If price wasn’t a factor, I would go with the 105 dc. How’s the boken on these 3 lenses. Afaik, these three are all great performers in regards to sharpness but hows the bokeh? Haven’t shot in a LOng while and I used to carry a M3 back in college. Can’t afford a Leica these days!
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